A Naked Point Of View
With most learning, reality trumps textbook.
In my post about my struggle with period placement within or outside quotation marks, your comments sealed my knowledge better than published grammar sources. Perhaps it was the repetition of your responses; perhaps it was your real-life experiences; perhaps it was because I’m an idiot. Regardless, I am now a confident planter of periods, and I have you to thank.
But I’m greedy. I want to siphon more.
For you non-writers, please don’t glaze over. As always, I’ll try to make my inquiry fun.
Help a Girl Out With Her Point of View (POV)
When writing fiction, one must avoid unintentional shifting between points of view. If the writer chooses two different points of view with which to tell the story, then a chapter or scene change should ease the transition.
I do not have a problem with that. I can maintain POV almost as well as Viagra can maintain an erection. Where I need your guidance is with my POV choices in my current work-in-progress.
I want to use first-person POV for my main protagonist and third-person POV for my other essential character, making the transition through chapter changes. So it might go something like this (here’s the time for you non-writers to tune back in):*
Stay tuned. The juicy part’s coming.
Chapter One
Although reluctant to leave the shower, I knew the day called. Toweling off I went through my mental to-do list. Get chocolate for dinner, drop potty-mouthed teen off to concussion/football practice, locate magician preteen who made himself vanish, ignore husband, and plant ass on chair and write. Oh, and must remember that hubby said the Amish men would be by to finish the pergola in the backyard.
Replacing the towel, I realized I’d forgotten to bring clothes into the bathroom. No worries. I would shimmy into the bedroom au naturel and grab some skivvies and shorts. I was in a good mood; even did a little two-step. And why not? The day was warm, and sun streamed through the floor-to-ceiling windows, all four blinds raised to showcase the light.
As I hummed I’m Too Sexy, opening and closing drawers in search of the day’s Banana Republic options, my subconscious signaled an alarm. I froze, and a chill enveloped me. Something was off. With my back to the windows, I inched my spine into an upright position, my heart beating in my throat. Please say it ain’t so.
On wobbly legs that no longer two-stepped, I turned around. I swallowed. There, a mere six feet away, carrying two-by-fours and hammering nails, worked five bearded and suspendered Amish men, their unobstructed window view anything but biblical.
Who says a naked middle-aged woman can’t outrun a cheetah?
Chapter Two
Jacob Yoder stood to full height and stretched his aching muscles. The job wasn’t difficult, but it was the second of four today. Lifting his hat, hammer still in hand, he wiped sweat from his brow and thought about the fried chicken and apple pie Rebecca would serve tonight. She was a good woman, his Rebecca. A good, God-fearing woman, modest and humble.
Jacob replaced his hat, and in between his men’s hammering, he heard loud music coming from the English home. The beat was heavy and pulsating and surely filled with sin.
Lifting his chin, he turned towards the source of the music and the bedroom before him. Why do the English need such big windows? But before Jacob could answer his own question, all thought ceased, and the hammer dropped from his hand and smashed his toes.
That there was no Rebecca.
Oh Mijn God!
So there you have it. Can I switch between first-person POV and third-person POV? Will that jar the reader too much? Or, if you are not a writer, have you ever stood naked in front of deeply religious men?
*For those of you wondering if this story is true, the answer is a mortifying yes. At least for chapter one. As for chapter two, luckily for this naked introvert, none of the men were looking. Which means one of two things:
1) They didn’t notice.
Or
2) They noticed but were not the least bit interested.
You tell me which is worse…
Note to readers paying attention: I know in the past I promised to keep my posts less than 700 words, but I just couldn’t manage with this one. Please don’t stab my eye. It’s pretty darn close. And by the way, the above isn’t really my work-in-progress. I was just trying to illustrate my POV question in a less technical manner.
All images from Microsoft Clip Art
Related articles
- The Mystical Gnome Writing Tips #8 ~ Point Of View (mjcache.wordpress.com)
- How Many POVs is Too Many? (worddreams.wordpress.com)
- POV – What Readers Don’t Notice (Unless it’s Wrong) (shannondonnelly.com)
- Questioning Use of Multiple Person Point of View (newauthors.wordpress.com)
- The POV Bane (newauthors.wordpress.com)
- Perfecting that Pesky Point of View (advancedfictionwriting.com)
126 Responses to “A Naked Point Of View”
The POV shift works well, the story is hilarious and the delivery is great!
And if they weren’t looking, I’d imagine it was their loss.
Well, thank you on all counts, though I suspect they’re still saying prayers to wipe the image from their minds.
[...] you please help me? You’ve helped me place my periods, choose my point of view, pick my books, and decide on dream posts. Why not help choose my [...]
I see this is a bit of an older post, but I have to thank you for the laugh. You left out option three though. Perhaps, being Amish men, they were embarrassed (for them, for you) and hid that they saw you. But what do I know about the Amish? I needed this laugh, thanks again.
Another commenter mentioned that as well–that perhaps they were being respectful. I still hope it was because they didn’t notice. Surely, it’s harder to see in than out, right?
Thanks so much for stopping by. I appreciate your visit. Glad you enjoyed it.
Hahaha… I loved that. That really happened to you??
I think that if done consistently, the reader will adapt to the POV shift. I’ve written the same way before. No biggie in my eyes!
Sadly, it did. But I choose to assume that the fact none of them were looking my way meant they hadn’t noticed. Perhaps they couldn’t see in as well as I could see out. Let’s hope, anyway…
Thanks for sharing your point of view on POV (oh, aren’t I a regular riot?). If it’s done well, like you, I think a reader can adapt.
The novel I’m working on now is first person with three person perspective. Similar to The Help. It helps me to write from all three pov’s and I think it will make it more compelling for the reader.
Are all of the perspectives written from 1st person POV or is one character 1st person and the other two 3rd person?
Thanks so much for stopping by and taking the time to comment. It’s been really helpful to hear everyone’s opinions.
Hi Carrie. Sorry I just found this. All perspectives are written from the first person POV.
That’s useful to know. Thank you!
Wow. Ton’s of comments here. Took me ten minutes to find the bottom!
I wasn’t jarred in the least.
Good to know. I’ll have to tally up the “for” and “against” numbers from the comments and use the results to help guide my decision. Thanks for sharing your two cents.
Let us know what happens in Ch 3 when she invites him up to her room.
Well, aren’t you the naughty one. You must be reading “Shades of Grey”…
It’s great to get this sorted out in the planning stage. I had written a great deal and then decided first person was giving me a narrow view and had to change all the I’s to her’s Ouch. I’m interested in what conclusion you draw.
I’ve had to revise from 1st person to 3rd person POV in the past as well, so I want to enter this project on more solid ground. It’s nice gathering so many different opinions–will help me decide. I’ll have to do a follow-up post down the road.
Thanks for dropping in.
I tried Viagra, it just gave me a stiff neck.
Then you should try Cialis. That way you can get the stiff neck when it’s most convenient for you. Like right before your wife asks you to take that yoga class with her. “Sorry, hon. No can do…”
Thanks so much for stopping by. I appreciate it!
True words of wisdom.
I think as long as you establish the POV switches early on in the novel (Chapter1 first person, chapter 2 third person), the reader will not be jarred and they will go with it.
Especially since you are delineating POV shifts by chapter which is so much easier to follow. 
I tend to agree with you as I’ve adapted to novels this way myself. But I was surprised by how many commenters felt the switch would be too jarring, and they preferred a single point of view. It’s helpful to hear opinions on both sides of the issue that I can use to guide my decision (when this endless outline is finally done!)
Thanks, Kourtney. I value your opinion.
You can definitely switch back and forth, especially considering how well-constructed/delineated you’ll make each of the voices.
I have a more pressing question though. Why is it that you know how long Viagra lasts?
=p
I like to take the little blue pill myself. Keeps my typing fingers from going limp…
Thanks for the opinion on the POV switcheroo. Everyone’s thoughts have been so helpful. Blogging life can be good.
Also, yes you can! This was well done! I liked the description in the first chapter! Very awesome!
Thank you! There are commenters on both sides of the fence on this POV issue. When I’m done outlining my WIP, I’ll have to make my final decision. I just don’t want to have to do a bunch of rewriting if I choose poorly.
haha ok! I enjoy reading stories like these! In my opinion, the main character should always be writing in first person while others are written for in third person.
But then again I am slightly eccentric :p
But I like your thoughts–they are aligned with mine!
hahah this is funny! I wanna read more!
Sorry, that’s it for the story of Jacob and me. I think we both need to put this one behind us.
But I’m glad you enjoyed it!
I think it’s possible if you separate with chapter breaks. I’d just make sure you’re prepared for the reader to feel distant from the 3rd person characters in comparison to the first person.
That’s kind of what I want–more intimacy with my 1st person POV character and more distance with the 3rd person POV character, so you’re spot on in your assessment. Thanks so much for dropping by and sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it.
It works for me, the two-person POV thing. I can follow it. I could even follow 3 person POV, if it’s clearly delineated. Have written a novel which is 2 person POV, and the first reader said you couldn’t tell Character A (by style) from Character B – which was a mistake on my part.
That’s good to know. Thank you. I, too, don’t have a problem with two, or even three different points of view. I just haven’t seen 1st person alternated with 3rd person much, but the times I did, I was able to adjust. I’ll use all of these great opinions I’ve received to help weigh my decision once I finish my WIP outline.
Thanks for dropping by!
The reader in me does not mind POV change at all, as long as there is a clear distinction between them. However, when the novel moves from first person to third I can get frustrated. I recently read a novel, all in first person, with different characters and it worked brilliantly. It was like an eye moving around, giving me all the corners to look into. Can Jospeh have the same POV as you? Would he then give us a much deeper intimate impression of keeping a straight face while your funning around in your birthday suit?
Having said that, as a writer I enjoy fiddling with POV. I have my main character in third and some diary entries in first.
You’ve actually encountered novels with more than one 1st person POV character? I’ve never seen that. I would think it would be difficult to follow. Does the author make the transition through designated chapters with the characters’ names? That’s really interesting, and now you’ve given me even more to think about. Luckily, I’m still in the planning/outlining stage, so I have plenty of time to change to one POV if that makes more sense.
Thanks for yet another viewpoint!
For the record: I vote for “Didn’t notice.”
As for the POV discussion, I’m the POV of the fly on the wall soaking in all this good advice coming your way.
OK, as a reader I don’t mind a change in POV if it contributes to the storytelling. Even abrupt changes I can appreciate, if I feel the author respects me as a reader. (If that makes any sense. Sometimes I feel the story is overly complicated just to showcase the “brilliance” of the author. That’s fine; just don’t count me in.) I don’t mind thinking with my fiction; I love a puzzle and to add my own interpretations/ connections. Complicated is not always a bad thing. And then sometimes I just like to escape and laugh and breath heavy.
I’ve also seen where multiple POVs use the chapter heading to delineate whose up to bat. Chapter One – John, Chapter Two – Sue, Chapter Three – Hank. It seemed a little direct at the time, but I knew right away which character’s eyes were spinning the yarn…so to speak.
(Yogi Berra-ism)
Either way you chose, I’m thinking you’ll make it work for YOU. If it rings true for you, I’m sure it will for your readers.
Thanks! It really is a treat to receive all of this wonderful advice. I’ll try not to exploit the privilege by asking readers their opinions on various writing techniques in too many posts, but I am grateful for everyone’s help. As I’m still outlining my WIP, I’m not committed to the POV, so I’ll take all this feedback into consideration. Like you, I’m not too put off by a few different points of view as long as the author is clear on whose head we’re in. And I’m with you on the brilliance thing (which I can easily say will not take place in my novel–ha ha!).
As for the Amish men, I hope you’re right and they didn’t notice. Thinking that is the only way I can sleep at night.
The story is hilarious. So funny and well told.
However, I am one who has a problem with mixing first and third person without some explanation (ie, the first person parts are letters or journal entries.) The problem is this: when I read first person narration (without an explanation), I in effect become that person, with all of the limitations that imposes. Namely, I can’t know about things that happened when I wasn’t present and can’t get inside of anyone else’s head or see things through their eyes. If I then turn the page and find third person narration, my brain screams, “who the h— is talking??? How can I know this?” The switch in the opposite direction is just as jarring. I was watching from the “outside” (though what I would call omnisciently – I’m not sure what the difference between third person and omniscient) and suddenly I’ve become a character in the story! How the h— did that happen? The switch in your piece, above, didn’t seem too bad, but then you set us up by telling us you were going to do it, didn’t you?
I haven’t personally read anything that did this kind of switching (without an explanation for the first person). Since others have, such works must exist. To me it sounds like someone is trying to be “artsy” rather than just telling an honest story. My choice for your piece would be all in third person. It’s possible to go quite deeply into a person’s head in third person, so that first person doesn’t gain enough to make it worth the restrictions, or worth jolting the readers – possibly losing some of them. It’s up to you, of course, and it depends somewhat on what you’re trying to do.
That’s my two cent – and, as usual, longer than your post!
But I so appreciate your two cents! I’m still in the outlining phase of my WIP, so I have time to structure the POV anyway I want. Everyone’s opinion is very helpful. There are people on both sides of the fence on this one. I have read a few novels that used both 1st and 3rd person, and I was thrown off at first, but then got into the story. All were thrillers. To be honest, I’m starting to rethink the use of both points of view. I’ll finish my outline–which presently I’m working from the angle of two different points of view–and then see how best to proceed.
Thanks again for you input. I really appreciate you taking the time to share it. This seeking advice on my blog is very useful, but I promise not to abuse it. I’ll continue to throw in pointless drivel.
Oh, by all means, more drivel, please!
Oh, good, because that’s pretty much what my next post is…
Hey, I think you’ve got the makings of a fun novel there! I say go for it!
I’ve read a few books with 1st person / 3rd person POV, and I haven’t had a problem with it. I don’t mind multiple POV characters at all. My “Death Out of Time” has six. Yep—six. Hey, it’s time travel with main characters from several different times. Has to be done.
If you had a large number of POV characters like that, it might be confusing to have one in 1st person and the others all in 3rd, or 2 in 1st and 2 in 3rd. But if you’re just going with a few POV characters, I think it would work fine.
Now, come on—your example could be the start of one of the funniest novels ever published!
I just added to my post that concluding note that this “story” was not actually my WIP as some commenters thought this was actually my novel. Oops. I was just playing around. My WIP is much more serious. I don’t know if I could carry Jacob and I through an entire novel.
I agree–sometimes many POVs are needed to get the info across. It’s interesting because commenters have been split on the issue. Some say stick to one POV; others say it’s okay to use more. I think it depends on the genre for sure. I, too, have read a couple novels that alternate 1st person and 3rd person POV. At first, I thought it was strange, but I adapted and really enjoyed the story.
Thanks for your opinion. I’ll put you in the “go for it” category. Since I’m still in the outlining phase of my WIP, I have time yet to decide which direction I’ll take, and these comments will help get me there.
It would be quite a change from a medical thriller….
But it could be a fun thing to just play with when you’re feeling a touch of writer’s block!
There you go! A good prompt to use if I’m stuck: naked woman in front of unsuspecting, hard-working Amish man…
Sure I think you can switch between first and third person narrative. I’ve read books like this before. As long as the focus on the storyline is clear and well-written, I don’t think you would have a problem keeping people interested. I’m in! What you posted from the story is intriguing, funny and clearly written. I have read so many books and short stories that I refuse to finish because of poorly constructed narratives, etc. Life’s too short to finish a book just on principle.
Thanks! It’s nice to have another opinion that thinks this technique would be okay. I, too, have read a few books that alternate between first and third person. At first, I thought it was strange, but I adapted quickly as the books were good.
My above post is not actually from my novel–I was just having fun with an embarrassing moment in my life and trying to present a technical post in a humorous way. And I’m with you on life being too short to finish reading a novel that doesn’t keep your interest. I used to finish the book out of guilt–isn’t that crazy?–now I say, “Sorry, time to move on.”
Thanks for stopping by!
As usual this post is hilarious, and sounds exactly like something that would happen to me. For POV, I don’t mind minimal, intentional change ups; it is interesting to get another perspective on the action and can add a lot of dimension and information to the story. I do tend to tune out if authors do this with three or more characters and alternate between chapters. I get invested in one person and then they switch and I forget what these characters were trying to say in the first place. But done minimally with skill and to create depth, I usually enjoy it.
I’m with you. Too many change ups, and I get annoyed. But for some types of novels, for example, thrillers, more than one POV may be necessary. Everybody’s responses have been so helpful, because not only am I getting opinions from writers’ vantages but also the vantage point of readers, something I hadn’t thought about when I posted this. So I appreciate hearing what sits well with you as a reader and what doesn’t. Because when it comes down to it, that’s what’s important.
And yes, although my life is mostly dull, and I don’t have too many tales to tell, I do have a few embarrassing moments, most of which I will never share.
Works for me
Struggling with the same thoughts for a new draft I am working on right now in fact. How spooky is that? Slightly off topic – or maybe it’s right on topic – did you ever read The Collector by John Fowles. It is written in the first person. First half of the book is written from one charters perspective and then halfway through he switches to the other character and goes back over the same scenes but from their point of view. Very clever. Great post as always by the way.
I haven’t read that book, but what a clever approach.
Sometimes POV choice seems obvious; other times it’s a more difficult decision. My first novel (the one coming out soon–or at least that’s what I’m told though I’ve yet to hear from the editor–gulp) is written all in third person, a safe choice for a thriller, though often thrillers are easier to tell from multiple points of view. But my current WIP is still in the outlining phase, so I have some time to choose. It’s just that I have two critical characters, and I’m not yet sure how best to proceed. Getting everybody’s opinions in these comments has been helpful–there are those on both sides of the fence. I’ll put it all to good thought.
Thanks for stopping by and for the kind words.
I’ll be interested to hear what you decide. Likewise I have two critical characters. I may have to start drafting and see how it feels accepting that if I have to rewrite then so be it. However, that is a conscious decision I will make and will go into it with my eyes open so a rewrite if it happens will not be a disappointment. Good luck.
I’ve had to do a rewrite from one POV to another before, and it wasn’t too painful. Thanks and good luck with yours as well.
Well if it wasn’t Amish men, someone would probably have some pictures on their Camera phone, and you would have lots of people at the door offering to do jobs.
On the subject of view point, personally I find switching view point a bit jarring , but that isn’t to say it wouldn’t work, and it depends how you link it together. If you are only at the outline stage I wouldn’t do it unless you have a clever way to do it.
First person perspective can also be a bit easy and give too much information away, where as third person means the reader works a little more. Again it depends on what you are doing and how much information you need to give away, and in what way.
You have gotten some good tips already on the comments so I’m sure you will work it out. Difficult to know without knowing what you are writing, but personally I wouldn’t give that away yet!
Oh, geez, I didn’t even think about the camera thing! You are right–I was lucky it was Amish guys and not some young, phone-happy guys. A You Tube video of me in my birthday suit is NOT how I want to market my book. Thank goodness for the Amish and their anti-technology ways!
I’ve received great advice from the commenters, and I’ll add you to the “be careful proceeding that way” pile. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to offer their opinion on the subject, which is a wonderful perk of blogging, though I won’t abuse the privilege.
Thanks so much for your insight. Now get packing. And get ready for your strip search at the airport.
Well you should abuse the privilege especially if it helps you.
The last time I went to England, back in October last year, I had wife and son with me, so we got through the security pretty quickly (they didn’t even weigh our luggage). This time it is on my own so I shall be likely getting the see through scan. Something to look forward to!
I’ve been in the scanner a few times (they have one at the Cleveland airport). But for a woman who’s stood naked in front of the Amish, that probably shouldn’t surprise you.
Wonderful. I laughed, I cried, it became a part of me.
I thought the transition was splendidly done. To me, it also made perfect sense to do it that way. After reading it, I think it would have been very odd to have it be anything else.
You are an excellent writer. Hurry up and finish that book. I can’t wait to read it!
Well, at the rate I’m going, it will be 10 years before this current WIP is done–I’m still in the outlining phase. But that’s why I wanted to do this post. Try to get some opinions before I start officially writing it. And everyone’s thoughts have been very helpful–quite a range of opinions on the topic. I’m glad this format worked for you. I’ve seen 1st person and 3rd person POV used together in a novel, and although at first it struck me as odd, I adjusted quickly and enjoyed the book. My finished novel that’s coming out (supposedly, anyway–hey Editor, you ever gonna contact me?) is all 3rd person POV.
Glad you enjoyed my naked tale. Was much easier to admit it in a mock fictional format than to straight out say, “Hey, I was naked in front of a bunch of Amish men.” Still makes me cringe to think about it.
I have a similar story…unfortunately. My story also involves dancing. I thought for a moment I might blog about it…but it’s still too painful!
Regarding POV: it seems there are many people who have a lot of rules about what can and can’t be done. For me, just as a reader, if it’s well written and a great story, I’m too absorbed to notice or care.
POV has always been a part of writing I like to argue with. I would hop around into everyone’s head if I could. It’s good that I learned it’s just not ok. That rule is a good one. Even for a rule breaker like me.
Well, there is the omniscient POV for those who like to hop around, and some authors use it well, though it’s not my favorite approach to read. But in a skilled author’s hands, I think it can be done well. I, however, am not that skilled, and I’d hate to discover I’m being lazy and doing more telling than showing because the POV allows me to do that.
I look forward to reading about your embarrassing dancing story.
Ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, my! I will forgive you going over 700 words for that funny story. It was riveting…action packed to the max. I didn’t mind the POV change at all. Truthfully, I like different POVs so I get a more well-rounded picture in a story. One POV leaves so much missing (and that can be good too, i.e., a mystery). Great post!
Thanks, Char! It’s so interesting reading peoples’ takes on this issue. Some, like you, prefer more than one POV, others don’t like the idea at all. I’m glad I posted this, because it’s giving me a lot to think about, and once I’ve finished outlining my current WIP, I’ll hopefully be able to make a well thought out choice in how to proceed with my narration.
Thanks for stopping by. I’m glad you enjoyed it.
I think switching POV with a chapter change (or some other appropriate segue) works just fine. Honestly, though, as long as you use proper grammar/spelling/punctuation, I’ll forgive you a whole lot. Few things irk me more than reading something written for public consumption and finding it to be full of typos, grammar errors, and bizarre or inconsistent punctuation.
Very true. I hope my assigned editor will find the mistakes I missed. It seems everytime I think I’ve spotted all of the little errors, I find another one on the next go-through. One never really is finished.
Thanks for your thoughts.
I’ve lived near Amish people for a good portion of my life, almost none of them have seen me naked.
Almost none, huh? That leaves the window open a tad, does it not?…
Oh my, those poor Amish people, I want to bet they saw everything but said nothing…
As for the POV question, I personally prefer one single point of view throughout the book. The first person makes sense when you want to make the reader feels closer to the main character and help the reader understand what’s going on through their head. But that means including a lot of insight, and some writers can’t pull this one off. The BEST mystery I ever read told in the first person was Agatha Christie’s The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. I think she wrote most of her novels in the third person but chose the first person for this one. And she HAD to to make the plot work. It was a brilliant use of the first person, tricking the reader all the way to the end . Did you ever read it? I don’t want to give it away if you didn’t, but then go read it and tell me what you think. This is how murder stories /mysteries should be told.
One thing that has become more popular over the years (thanks Jodi Picoult, argh) is the switching point of view from one chapter to the next. One chapter tells about a character, the next about another, and so on. I personally can’t stand this type of writing. It’s obviously meant to make you feel closer to the characters without using the first person but find it disruptive. Every book written this way takes me several chapters to adapt and understand how the writer wants me to think. I find it a little lazy on the writer’s side because I have to do all the work, when it’s easier for them to write things this way. I’m a very visual person and I create images of all the scenes I read, like a movie. Good movie transitions are very smooth and don’t make you think, OK, whose angle is the story based on now? I’ll always favor a first person or a neutral third person all the way through. But that’s just my personal opinion, only moi!
Your comment is very helpful to me. You’re right, many books now alternate POV, sometimes having many different POV characters. I can handle two, maybe three, but beyond this I get a little frustrated and feel the author took the easy way out. For thrillers, however, sometimes more than one POV is needed to pull it off. My medical thriller coming out (if that day indeed ever does occur), is written all in 3rd person from one character’s POV. It would have been easier to change off POV, but I stuck with one. I think my current WIP would benefit from both POVs, however, so I’ll have to see. I’m still outlining, so there’s time to decide, which is why getting everyone’s opinions is so helpful. People have been on both sides of the fence, so I have some thinking to do.
I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your insight as a reader. And no, I haven’t read that Agatha Christie book. Sounds intriguing.
As for the Amish men, maybe they did pretend not to see me. If that’s the case, I bet they got some good chuckles on the buggy ride home.
Oh, read The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, the ending is jaw dropping. I read the book twice, 20 years apart and I got tricked both times because I didn’t remember the end.
Harlan Coben is also excellent at using different POVs for his murder/mystery stories (in the third person), without causing much confusion in the reader’s mind. I think you can pull it off if you make it easier for the reader, not harder for them (and easier for you). I find Jodi Picoult quite lazy because she uses the same formula for every single book – boring.
I’m with you–not a big fan of Jodi Picoult for the same reason, plus I don’t really get pulled into her books. I read one of Harlan Coben’s and really liked it. I’ll probably read more of his in the future. I will tag that Agatha Christie book on Goodreads.
Go for Coben’s Tell No One if you haven’t read it yet. It was very good and I chewed all my nails off reading it.
Well, that sounds painful…
2 is worse..totally.
Changes of POV really don’t bother me, and I’m hyper sensitive to most things. I think my brain just assumes its that authors voice and learns to understand it. Hm?
Yeah, I may have to agree with you on that one. You know you’ve reached middle age when standing around naked gets no attention…
Changes in POV don’t really bother me either unless it’s done poorly within the same chapter, and the author is not spotting his or her mistakes. But I will admit the first time I encountered 1st person and 3rd person in the same novel, I was surprised. But once I got over it, I enjoyed the read.
Thanks for your two cents. Or Saudi Riyals, in your case (did I get that right?)
You did…
It’s possible I’ve never read anything of quality where the POV was truly screwed up, and I’m only thinking I don’t notice it. I’m sure if it was truly glaringly poorly done I’d notice because it would niggle my brain. Or, it’s just that as a writer I don’t want to find out I have that kind of flaw and must change a lifelong habit, so I avoid considering it. Hehehe.. You’re the professional!
Oh, boy. If I’m the professional, then we’re all in trouble.
I don’t much about writing in fact until just recently I spelled writting with two t’s. Being naked in front of the Amish again can’t help you there. I can I say thank you for making me smile on a Tuesday. It is Tuesday isn’t it? I’m glad you are taking the time to write write and write some more you are certainly magnificent at it!
Thank you, sweet Starla! You made my day.
And yes, it is Tuesday, but like you, I’m thrown off. I usually post on a Monday but didn’t yesterday because of the holiday, and now I’m all a mess. Doesn’t take much to make me a mess. Just a holiday and some Amish men.
I have stood naked before a variety of men, strangely enough. It stands to reason that some of them may have been religious.
Absolutely you may switch POV. Not only that, but you can do it a bunch. You can go from first-person present to 3rd person omniscient to 2nd person. Do what you want as long as you know what you’re doing. I’ve seen this technique used by no less than Irvine Welsh and William Faulkner. Christopher Moore (whom I’ve never actually read) has written in the 2nd, I believe.
I can’t imagine writing in 2nd person POV–have never read a novel done that way. It might make me think too hard.
I’d also never attempt omniscient. I think writing in that style takes more skill than at first might be believed. I’ve read a few books that alternate between first and third person POV, and it didn’t disturb me, though I admit I was surprised the first time I encountered that style.
It’s interesting hearing everyone’s opinions, which have included both for and against. Once I’m done outlining, I’ll have to make a firm decision, but this allows me some food for thought (just ignore that cliche; I’m feeling lazy).
Thanks for your input. As always, it’s appreciated.
Oh, and about that part of you standing naked before a variety of men? Sounds like more True Tales in the making…
As you know, I’m pretty new to autobiographical writing, but I’ve got to find a story that makes me look cool.
Honestly, I don’t care for omniscient narration. However, I would disagree that it’s harder to write. I find it easier. Also “easier” to read–which is not a good thing. For example, if I have a character “Harry” who is a misogynist, I can tell you Harry hates women, which requires nothing on your part, or, if I’m skilled enough (and I like to think that I am) I can demonstrate through a dozen tiny details that he’s a monster. In this way, I’ve made you do a little work drawing the conclusion for yourself, forcing you to participate in the work with me. Ultimately this is a lot more satisfying for the reader, and I believe is one of the elements which separates really good fiction from that which is merely okay.
I just worry with omniscient POV, I might take the easier way out and tell instead of show. But if you can maintain good showing as you’ve suggested above, then I think it can be a very useful style.
Useful to the author, sure. But I still think it’s too easy. And honestly, I can’t think off-hand of a modern book I’ve really enjoyed (as opposed to a pleasant diversion, which I’m not knocking) and by which I’ve been enriched that was omniscient.
I’m sure there’s a couple, honestly, but as or right now . . .
okay, Stephen King uses that style, and there have been a couple of his books, particularly Salem’s Lot and the Green Mile (I don’t recall if the latter is omniscient or not) that have been important to me.
Okay–so there are a couple books, but I really think omniscience is lazy on the part of the author in most cases.
I’m supposed to be working, you know.
So am I. So I guess we’ll both get back to it now.
Sooooo funny! HAHAHAH… This reminds me of the time I was half naked bottom down walking across the living room thinking I was alone, only to realize my EX-mother-in-law was lurking somewhere in the living room, silent when I called out ‘hello’, and rattled me with astonishment when banging on the bathroom door to inquire in Arabic what was wrong as I stared at her fluorescent peach underwear staring at me, making me sob at losing my husband. Only to come out, lights off again, nothing, like as if it never happened. When I told my husband I felt crazy and stupid, as she had brought it up to him that I wasn’t feeling well, I told him the truth.
Needless to say, he wasn’t the best support, and agreed that I was crazy and stupid. But now I realize, showing your arse doesn’t make you an arse. It makes you human. And yes, I was embarrassed, but your post reminds me to be loud and proud! This little butt of mine, I’m going to let it shine!
That’s right! And any future mother-in-law, should have a sense of humor when I do make an arse of myself. 
HAHA.
Pink.
“This little butt of mine, I’m going to let it shine!”–Ha ha! What a great line! I’m jealous I never thought of it!
Your story is too funny (and horrifying!). At least I didn’t know my peepers and never saw them again. I can’t imagine having walked bare-bottomed in front of anyone, let alone my mother-in-law. Thanks for a good laugh, and believe me, I feel your pain!
HAHHAH.. it’s funny. This story has been plaguing me for years now (as that was the last night him and I ever spent again, the night we declared the end), and somehow, your story, made it that much funnier. To be able to look at how I shined (or mooned) her accidentally, and how much better I am for it.
Thank you sooooo much.
Pink.
I’d say you gave a fitting end to that chapter in your life.
LOL.. LOL!!!! HAHAHAH.. you’re soo funny. HAHAH.. Big smiles here.
Pink.
This is great. Do it. I love it….and I am truly sorry this happened to you, but it’s funny as hell! haha.
Yeah, I bet Jacob is truly sorry, too. He’s probably still paying penance, or whatever it is the Amish do.
Just a side note, but your past blog content is what brought it to mind (and that’s a compliment), if guys really want to get ripped, they should check out the Amish men. Those young men have muscles upon muscles. Guess it’s that manual labor. Just saying…
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts on the POV issue.
That is excellent advice that I will remember for the next time I am in Pennsylvania.
Good. Then you will be the one saying, “Oh, Mijn God!”
Cool! My series is written in the first person, and there are times when I’d just LOVE to squeeze in a bit about what some of the other characters are thinking/feeling.
This is the first time I’ve seen it done, and I’m not sure how I feel about it. On one hand, I love it because the first-person POV really draws me into the first character, and then I get to discover what the other character is thinking. It has wonderful immediacy.
It’s a little difficult for me to reconcile the switch to third-person, but it might only be because conventional wisdom is thundering, “You just don’t DO that!” in the back of my writing brain.
Realistically, if I was reading it without your preamble, it might slow me down for a second while I went, “Wait… wha…?” but it wouldn’t make me throw the book across the room. Particularly if it was the kind of snappy “OMG, what now?” situation you wrote above. What the heck; rules were made to be broken, right?
And I’m sure your Amish workers were just being gentlemen.
I’ve read a couple books that went back and forth between first person and third, and at first, I was surprised, but the writing was sharp enough that it wasn’t too much of a distraction. I haven’t decided for sure if I’ll go this route. I’m still outlining, and I really wanted to get others opinions on the subject, because although I never found anything online to say it was taboo, I also never found anything saying it’s doable. And of course, one always has to be careful with their narrative approach so as not to scare off agents/publishers.
It’s helpful hearing peoples’ thoughts on the issue. Thanks so much for sharing yours. I know it’s easier to give short, non-relevant comments when one reads a lot of blogs, so I appreciate you and the others for really putting some thought into the issue. After my last Lazy Blog Day post, I needed to elevate my content a little.
I think as long as your POV shifts are clean you should be good. I HATE when POVshifts arbitrarily, which has ruined otherwise decent books for me. Some things you can’t forgive.
Wandering naked in your own house? I totally relate, though I have never been caught in less than a nightie or bathrobe by the trash collector or delivery guy. Personally, I would be thankful for the averted gaze and take it as oblivion, not indifference!
Yes, I’m hoping they couldn’t see in my windows as well as I could see out!
I agree, poorly done POV transitions, or worse, no transition at all, are disruptive to the reader. If I do decide on using the two different points of view, I will be sure to transition through chapter changes.
Thanks for your thoughts, Lynnette. I appreciate it.
I think you have to write in the best way that works for you and in doing so, it will translate how it should to the reader. Personally, I think it works fine. I can give you a FANTASTIC example of this sort of thing – a book called The Missionary and the Brute http://www.amazon.com/THE-MISSIONARY-AND-BRUTE-ebook/dp/B006X0FZOC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1338301403&sr=8-4 by John D. Kenworthy. I felt like he fully mastered the use of differing POVs in this book. Others may or may not agree with me but I felt it worked perfectly. I wish you all the best in your writing! And I know it’s going to work out terrific
I can’t wait to read your work in fact.
Thanks so much, Sheila. I looked at that book–it looks really good. And thanks to Amazon, I was able to peruse the first few chapters and see the author’s POV changes.
I suspect this POV transition can be pulled off if done carefully. Not sure if I’ll be able to do it or not–I’m still outlining, so I’m trying to figure out how best to proceed with the narrative. It’s really helpful getting all of these different perspectives. Professional advice without having to pay anyone. Always thinking, I am.
Oh I’m glad you got to take a look then – that book immediately jumped to mind… it seems pretty challenging to me but you seem the kind of girl who can handle it
Then apparently I’ve got you fooled.
You really are a wicked woman on times! I have no problem with the way you write, it sounded all right to me.
Thank you. That’s good to hear. And yes, I suspect “Jacob” used me as an example to discuss with his children how NOT to act.
I’ve read books like this before and yes, it can be jarring but I think it can work…to me, it takes a little longer at drawing the reader in, but the first-person (which is what I mainly write fiction in) was GREAT. I’d like to see how these chapters and people relate though and that would keep it going for me. It’s difficult to switch POV — takes a deft hand and skill I think, but I think you have it. Entertaining read and look forward to more. I just have to finish mine!!! I wanted to do what you did above, but I’m too chicken to attempt it.
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Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I’m still in the outlining phase of my WIP, so I haven’t made any formal POV decisions. This post is a nice way for me to solicit opinions, and even with just the handful of comments so far, I’m already hashing things out in my mind.
As for the, er, naked incident, it still makes me shudder to think of it. I’m surprised I even wrote about it, but I think it’s safe to assume “Jacob” and his friends won’t be reading this.
Thanks for stopping by!
I’m going to be the weird one and say it doesn’t work for me. Here’s my nonsensical reasoning. If Jacob is going to be kept at a distance, why have his POV? To me (and I may be wrong) the shift is a disguised author intrusion. It’s almost like you want the reader to think, ‘what are the guys thinking? I know.. Let’s go out on the ledge and find out.’ For me as a reader, I’d rather stick with Rebecca’s POV. If she and Jacob get together later in the story, have him divulge what he saw and felt when he saw her that day. The way it is now, I’m not sure whose story you want to tell…Jacob’s or Rebecca’s. If, however, Jacob is an important, essential part of the story, you might consider him telling his story also in 1st person.
Right now, I don’t care about Jacob. I want to know what Rebecca’s doing.
BTW, love the story! You poor thing. I would be mortified if construction workers saw me naked in my house, especially from the backside. LOL. What a great story to tell! We all have our embarrassing moments, but this one is the funniest one I’ve heard. I applaud you for ‘revealing’ so much to your audience.
(did you know Tim Allen and Kirstie Ally played Jacob and Rebecca Yoder in For Richer or Poorer?)
I really appreciate your insight–thanks so much for pointing out the possible negative aspects to this approach. As I told an earlier commenter, I’m still in the outline phase, so I have time to decide how to proceed in narrative. And by hearing the differing opinions, I’ll have some divergent reasoning to help me ultimately decide.
As for the Jacob and Rebecca Yoder names, I did not make that connection to the movie! I just chose what I thought would be common Amish names.
Thanks again–I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.
I like the shift. I think so long as the subject matter links to what the previous chapter’s narrative is about then it’s not too much of a jump for the reader.
I agree. At least I’ve not had difficulty adjusting to the POV change in the few novels I’ve read that alternated between first- and third-person POV. Glad to hear others feel the same.
Thanks so much for stopping by and commenting. I appreciate it!
I thought it worked just fine. It didn’t seem out of the ordinary or clumsy at all. About your story…you my friend, are freakin hilarious. I could actually SEE you doing all of that and I was laughing out loud.
And what could have been worse than not noticing or not being interested is if they had pointed and laughed. I think they were being gentleman.
It is still horrifying to think about. In fact, I cringed while writing this, because my mind tries not to relive the experience. I’m really hoping they couldn’t see in as well as I could see out or were just really absorbed in their work. If they did see and were being gentlemen as you suggest, I’m sure they had interesting talk at the dinner table that night!
Thanks for your input on the POV change. It will be helpful to get everyone’s thoughts.
I am going to send out an email to all my writer friends to get their opinions on something as well. I don’t want to ask TOO many times on blog posts. I already know that I’m an idiot, but I don’t need to make it public.
See, that’s where we differ. I have no problem being an online idiot…
hahaha…well, I’ve done it a couple of times already, but if I want others to take my writing seriously, then it might not be a good idea to share ALL of my blunders and dumb ideas.
Noted. I’m still in that “writing for me” mindset. And since I still haven’t heard from my assigned editor, I’m convinced my book will never be released. Until then, I will remain in my delusional state.
I know that I should be writing for myself also. I write because I love it, but I write so that others can read the stories I have to tell. I hope to one day have a few loyal readers who really enjoy my stories and look forward to each new one. I know I might be dreaming, but right now, it’s what gets me up every morning.
A worthy goal for sure.
I definitely think you can switch back and forth like this. You’ve made a clean break between the characters. I like novels to do this…
I’ve been reading a lot of writing craft books. One of the points I knew but still like is: “don’t give the reader what she wants.” Breaking at the chapter and switching POVs allows you to be with one character, leave her hanging, then switch to the 3rd-person POV to “not give the reader what she wants.” LOVE that. Leaves us all wanting more.
Happy writing!
I like that advice–I hadn’t heard that one before, but it makes sense. It is a nice way to keep the reader turning pages.
Thanks so much for the insight. I appreciate it. It will be interesting to learn peoples’ thoughts on this.
Changing from first pov to third is a challenge. Can I ask why you are choosing this and not either all thrid or just one pov?
I want to showcase the main character in a more intimate light so that the reader can really get inside his head, whereas I’d like to keep the other character more distant.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. Hope you don’t mind. If you want the reader to be inside a character’s head than there’s no better way than first person. If that’s your focus then you need to keep that pov for the entire novel so that the reader is carried along with that person through the journey – eg: say the character misinterprets her love interest’s behavior and ends up ending her relationship, I want the reader to be carried along with those mistakes and have the love interests behavoir left a mystery because that’s the way the protagonist saw it. Also, there’s no better way than keeping a character distant than to make them only visible through someone else’s eyes. First to third is often a jarring transition, even across chapters. I think it can be done (your example above was quite smooth) but I think you need to ask what does it add (does it really matter what the gardner thought? does his view of the situation advance the plot? can the first person convey his meaning / thoughts through how she sees him react? Eg: she can describe his facial expressions / dropping the hammer. Anyway, just some food for thought – hope it helps.
That really does help, Janet. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. It helps to hear both the pros and the cons. I’m still in the outlining phase so am not committed to anything, which is why I wanted to explore the possibility of the duo POV. I generally prefer to maintain a single POV–my first novel does this–but that can sometimes be difficult to do with a thriller where other vantage points are needed.
I will keep your words in mind as I contemplate my direction. Thanks again. Much appreciated!