Stop, Mr. Chauvinist, You’re Making My Eyes Roll
Today I’d like to share some riveting prose. But warning, you might throw up a little in your mouth.
Image credit: Microsoft Clip Art
Featured Prose:
- “…but the body beneath the tailored clothes was a symphony of curves, a melody of flesh looking to break free. In fact, she looked like she was smuggling balloons.”
- “…the waitress with the Nordic-Track ass.”
- “We walked up the staircase, me trailing behind…because I wanted to check out Donna’s legs and butt.”
- “‘She was beautiful.’ I remembered to add, ‘And very bright,’ like I really gave a rat’s ass about that.”
Hmm, See Where I’m Headed with This?
I’ve pulled these quotes from the book Plum Island by Nelson DeMille. My nice gene wanted to keep the book nameless, but for copyright reasons, I figured I shouldn’t. Then again, anyone who follows me on Goodreads could figure it out. Doesn’t take a nuclear physicist. Especially one with big balloons.
Image credit: Microsoft Clip Art
Too bad, too, because I love the story—great science, good suspense, interesting police procedural. But Jeez Louise, if I wanted this much chauvinism, I’d head back to Vegas and watch creepy men pawn creepy booby cards.
My Point?
Sexy language doesn’t bother me. If an author wants to get his or her sex on, go for it. It worked for E. L. James. But if the author desires female readership, I suggest he or she present female characters as more than boobies, butts, and thighs. In this novel, even intelligent female detectives and Ph.D. scientists are no more than the sum of their physical parts. Booty before essence, I guess.
Of course, sexist pigs exist in reality, and as such, they deserve to exist in fiction. And showing, not telling, as this author does, is a beautiful way to highlight the character’s faults. But when the sweet misogynist is the protagonist himself, that sale proves tougher. I don’t know about you, but I like to like my heroes. And this doofus is hard to like, especially when character growth is not on the table.
Oh, I know what you’re thinking—Hey, Carrie, the author can write any way he wants. No one is forcing you to read it.
Exactamundo, Richie!
Image credit: http://commons.wikimedia.org
As a result, I won’t read other works by this best-selling author. A shame, really, because the story is good. But shelves and shelves of great books exist. No reason to waste my time eye rolling, harrumphing, and hawing.
And as a writer, for my own readers’ benefit, I promise to avoid the following physical description of my hero: “Looks like he’s smuggling a cucumber in his pants…”
What are your thoughts on the subject? Men, am I being too sensitive? Women, would you keep reading? Both genders, do you care, or are you just rolling your eyes and saying, “That Carrie is so very…”?
Please forgive my absence from your blogs later this week. I’m taking my youngest to Magi-Fest, a huge magic conference with some of the biggest names in the business. Okay, not David Copperfield. No, not Criss Angel. Not Penn and Teller. Hey, stop it, will you? There are big names there according to my son, who happened to get a full scholarship to the event. That’s my boy! Of course, past experience tells me I’ll be one of the few estrogen-secreters present. Better keep my balloons well-covered…
262 Responses to “Stop, Mr. Chauvinist, You’re Making My Eyes Roll”
Ew! WHY must writers be so icky. I love Clive Cussler and always read him on airplanes, but don’t really like his writing with the assumption that women are passive, wilting and in need of protection. ick
Oh, yeah, I’m not sure I could take too much of that. My eyes might roll right out of my head! Hopefully his female characters don’t swoon.
I know girls like that. The worst is that they KNOW they’re feeding into it and do so intentionally. Double blugh!
Yeah, that chaps my behind, too.
Life is too short to read sucky books. I like a good sexy romp as much as the next person — unless the next person is the Pope — but the book had better not rely on those passages for its success or I’m bailing!
Very true. I ended up finishing the book, but I won’t likely read any of his others. As you say, life it too short.
Thanks!
Reminds me of this one radio presenter whose every joke and line was some sexual innuendo or other. Totally turned me off my favourite radio station. I recently learnt he’s not working there anymore, and I’ve tuned in again.
No, I don’t think you’re being too sensitive. Enjoy the magic!
I ended up finishing the book, but I won’t read more from this author. No need to feel icky when reading a book.
Thanks!
Haha, I think mentioning that your character has a well-endowed cucumber would add to your readership. That seems to be the fashion nowadays…
Would that bother me? Yes. Would I stop reading? Depending on the quality of the book. If I was able to convince myself that this is purely the character (even if it’s the protagonist) and the rest of the book’s language was brilliant enough to assume the writer is aware of the terrible sins he made his hero to commit – I probably would roll my eyes and read on.
But then I also like when men open the doors for me, so I think I would make a terrible feminist :/
This has inspired me to write about it at some point… soon…
Well, I did finish the book, but I was even more frustrated at the end, because so much of this kind of thing was peppered throughout. Guess I won’t be reading more of his work, unless I learn he’s changed his ways.
Thanks for your insights! I’d look forward to reading your post on the subject.
yeah, I recently read a book by an acquaintance with a lot of that in it and thought, hmm, boring! Ms M reads lots of fan fiction online and she says it’s chock full of balloon like appendages though.
So nice to see times have changed and women are no longer objectified…
I’d probably stop reading and I never usually give up on books. There’s a difference between appreciating beauty and objectifying it. The part about not caring about the person’s mind is especially bothersome. If I did keep reading, the only reason would be to see if hopefully some horrible thing happened to this character.
“There’s a difference between appreciating beauty and objectifying it.”—Yes! Thank you for putting it so succinctly.
I did finish the book. Sadly, no character growth, and from what I hear from other readers, it’s not much better in his other books about this character. Guess I won’t be reading them.
Interesting post, it reminds me of adverts that are in women’s magazines..all the women are gorgeous, thin, stunning..etc…an effort to convert us to emmulate them..take that to reading this sort of stuff..do women secretly desire to be that person with the amazing butt and boobs..have we become conditioned in our society to desire this and if so..it make sense that we would find it in our reading material..
Good point, and sadly, probably true. I don’t mind if the character is admiring women’s assets; I’d just like him to acknowledge that women have other purposes and attributes as well, ones that don’t all relate to looks or how they can service a man.
I hear you!!
[...] are closed. I’m still canoodling with magicians. But check out this fun pictorial Katie from Real Woman’s Health put together. It seems my [...]
Hi Carrie… I doubt you’ll even get to my comment before summer, with 200+ before mine…
but, I wonder if you have reviewed the book on GoodReads or wherever the author has a presence. Perhaps this author has a blind spot (and perhaps not very good beta readers) wherein, they don’t understand the difference between “creating a character” and being a boor.
Maybe a well placed review from the feminine side stating as articulately as you have done here could help this author get better at his craft.
All that said, I totally agree, there are soooooo many books – good books – out there that one reader could never read them all. Maybe you’d be doing other estrogenites a favor by letting them know this book may not be for them. That doesn’t necessarily mean all this author’s books are like this, but surely, it makes it very probable!
Great post and I’m glad you named the book/author.
PS for the first time ever, I scrolled to the bottom to leave my comment without reading all 250 or so previous (plus your 250 or so responses) – that is one of the banes of blogreading, IMO. I love reading the comments, the interaction and seeing people think on their feet, so to speak. But holy crap, I’ve GOT to cut down on reading comments if I want to continue getting to all the blogs I want to!!! Which begs the question – why didn’t I think of that before I alienated so many blog friends cuz I hardly visited their blogs!
Hope the magic gathering was boatloads’ and disappearing trucks’ worth of fun for you and the kid!
Reading comments is great, but I often don’t have the time to. As you mention, there just isn’t enough time if one is trying to read blog posts, too. I follow so many blogs, and I can’t get to them all the time, but I try to stop in when I can.
And as for a review, I did leave one on Goodreads and Amazon discussing my thoughts on this book. Of course, I’m sure the best-selling author has better things to do than read my review.
But still, as you point out, maybe it will be a heads up for other women who are turned off by this type of thing.
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment. I appreciate it! And I still have some time left at the magician’s conference. My son is having a blast!
Hi there
Brilliant post as usual.
Well chosen excerpts, although i find women objectifying women even worse than a chauvinistic male….god, that E.L. James, dont remind me of her…shes worse than all these guys, imho.
And sorry for the glaring typos and missing apostrophes. I hate typing on the ipad
I’m currently at a conference for magicians, so I’ve been using my iPad a lot. I share your frustrations with its limitations.
I haven’t read EL Jame’s books, and I don’t plan to. Don’t think I could stomach it. I suspect my eyes would fall right out of my head and get stuck in a pool of my vomit. Sorry. That was gross. But I’m surrounded by a bunch of men at a magic conference. What else should one expect?
Thanks!
Being that my readership is 99.97% female, I TOTALLY agree with you, Carrie. Girl power!!
Haha. Yes, best not to alienate that 99.97%!
Funny post… and I needed the laugh right now. In my 40th hr traveling home from Israel, after numerous, hellish delays! (I’ll post about it this week no doubt!) Frankly, I’d read just about anything right now, but agree completely that this kind of narrative turns me off completely. It takes a lot of skill to give a character this voice, and not alienate many female readers. You hit the nail on it’s pretty, little, helpless head. (Yes, I’m being intentionally sexist about nails).
Thank you. My ‘pretty little helpless’ head finally finished this book today. I feel like I need a shower now…
Hope you’re resting up and getting over that jet lag! I’m at a magic conference with my son. So much blog fodder already, and I’ve barely been here a few hours…
I’ve heard nothing but good things about you, young lady…
Nice to see people weren’t blowing smoke where your work is concerned. Great post!
Thank you! Very nice of you to say. And thank you for stopping by.
Thank YOU for the yucks!
“It was a blonde. A blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window.” ― Raymond Chandler, Farewell, My Lovely
One of my all-time favorite lines!
HF
Well, I can see why! Great line. That’s much better than ‘balloon smuggling’. Finding a member of the opposite sex attractive and writing lines to capture that feeling is great. Denigrating women throughout a book is not.
It’s kind of like being a comic and relying only on gay bashing jokes and vulgarity to take the place of real comedy b/c you need cheap laughs…
I agree 100% with you – and I’m not even smuggling a cuke in my bra…
At first I figured it was just the way the author created the character–he wanted him to be that way–but with all the statements like this peppered throughout the book and a lot of ex-wife bashing, I wonder if the author is drawing from a little personal experience. Of course, most authors do. But I’ll leave his books to others in the future.
I read a smattering of his stuff in the past – but there’s so many great books to read – no sense wasting time on an author that pisses you off.
Agreed.
You’re clipart is always inspiring.
How refreshing to see a pic of pigtails with green barf contained in her cute cheeks. 
Delightful!
Yes, Microsoft clip art never let’s me down. Except when I need a pic of my nemesis Donald Trump. They don’t have any pics of him in their collection.
I don’t know Carrie, I guess it depends on the book and the character. There is a series of Zombie / Vampire books I read where this is pretty common and fits the character, makes me laugh every single time.
If the author gave me other things to like about this character, I might be okay with it. But the guy’s just a cad all around. Probably appeals to some readers–considering his books have sold millions. Guess he’s getting the last laugh.
Thanks, Valentine!
just wanted to let you know that I nominated you for the blog hop http://yawattahosby.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/woo-hoo-who-wants-to-follow-me-on-a-blog-hop
Thank you! You are so sweet. I left you a comment over there.
Ohhh that is what I am doing, smuggling balloons. LOL I bet he doesn’t say, “The suit fit snuggle to his sausage so much that all the females were begging to dine.”
Ha! If he saw what you just wrote, he’d steal that line for sure. Balloons and sausages. I don’t think he needs any more descriptors than that.
Totally agreed, Carrie. Books like this irritate me beyond words.
Then you best avoid this one.
Bwhaahaahaahaa! I suppose I could stomach some of the chauvinism if the protagonist had a character arc, but I will trust you when you state that it just ain’t so. Without an arc, it’s just bad writing unless you’re crafting satire. Smuggling balloons…arghh! Coffee tastes like crap when it comes back up. The Nordic-Track ass actually made me giggle, but I’m not sure if you’re supposed to do that while reading a police procedural thriller.
I think that’s part of the problem. One minute I’m reading about a potential biological outbreak, and the next I’m reading about the protag’s inability to keep his pants zipped. Is a bit jarring. I only have 100 pages left now, and any hopes I had of character change have vanished.
Life is too short to read crappy books. Put. The. Book. Down. Now.
Well, I’m 570 pages in. I HAVE to find out who dunnit now.
That’s what flipping to the last few pages is for…
Good point.
Hey, you’re a successful author now. You’ve got better things to do. Write another damn book. Now.
xo
Missed you, btw!
You, too. And I’m just about to go work on that novel-in-progress. Thanks for the extra motivation…
It’s my job to insist that other people self-motivate. It hides the fact that I haven’t done it myself in years.
I’m glad I read this comment after I just took a 25 minute power nap. Otherwise I’d feel guilty for taking a snooze. Okay. Now on to my writing…
Your son will be eternally grateful to his mother. As a young boy, there was nothing quite as magic for me as going to Mr. French’s magic class.
He loves his magic, and he’s really good. He studies the instructional DVDs of the experts, and some of his tricks blow me away. He focuses mostly on card tricks. He’s so excited to get to interact with hundreds of magicians from around the world.
Thanks!
hahahaha big balloons? Really? how descriptive! LMAO!
Yes, sexist AND weak writing all rolled into one.
You’re right that there are so many amazing books out there that there is no need to keep reading the bad ones. I was reading a certain bestseller the other day and about a chapter in, I really wanted to put it down. It was pretty liberating when I reminded myself that I don’t have to finish a book just because I started it. It frees up time to read the other 2 million or so books on my to-be-read list.
I’m not sure why so many of us feel guilty when we don’t finish a book. I suppose if we’ve paid for it, we want to at least see how it turns out. If it wasn’t for the ‘who-dunnit’ aspect of this one, I’d have given it up pages ago.
Thanks!
What if we throw up more than just a little in our mouths?
Enough said…
The scary thing is, if I listed all the passages I’ve found like this in the book, I’d have a 1,000 word post filled with quotes alone.
I’m with you on this, Carrie (and excuse me, but what a kick Magi-Fest must be! Good luck and have a blast.)
Back to the subject. Yes–you warned me, but I was eating while reading your post, and those descriptions did make me want to barf. Bad taste done in poor language equals yucky reading. I actually think that it adds more interest to a character if he notices something besides the obvious. For instance, I remember reading “The Firm” years ago, and although I can’t remember the main character’s name, I still remember his description of meeting a certain secretary. Specifically, he noticed that her fingernails (or toenails?) were “….red!” Don’t know why, but somehow, that stuck with me, and at least it put me in the scene—something that balloons and Nordic tracks don’t do.
That’s a great point. It’s so obvious to go for the chest and the butt. Why not head for something more original? And balloons? Really? Sadly, there is plenty for of these types of references throughout the entire book.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
if there’s one chauvinist in there and he uses language so that we can see, ‘wow, what a sexist,’ then i have no problem with it, but if everyone is doing it, yep, says more about the author… and don’t even get me started on ’50 shades of crap…’ even a woman can write this kind of nonsense. good on you for saying something about it OUT LOUD. xo, sm
I didn’t read 50 Shades and don’t intend to. From what I’ve heard about it, I’d probably hurl within the first 10 pages. Then again, I’m kind of wanting to hurl with this sexist book I’m currently reading. Hmm, maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’m just a hurler…
Thanks, SM!
ha, ha. HURLERS UNITE!
Indeed!
I don’t necessarily mind if there is a character like that in the book because it adds to the landscape of the book. But if it’s the main character, I’ll put the book down. As a woman I have to deal with enough of that in my real life, I’m not wanting any more in my reading world. And the kind of guy that likes a hero like that is well not the kind of guy I’d ever want to be around.
I completely agree. A side character who has these flaws? Fine. But the ‘hero’? Unless there’s growth, I think not! And I think Grandma H would agree…
Thanks, Kourtney.
Oh Grandma H would agree. But she doesn’t read fiction. LOL. She only reads non-fiction, specifically true stories of president’s wives. She’s a real niche reader but at least she’s guaranteed to not have to deal with that type of main character.
Another reason to like Grandma H.
Good for you. I agree; I hate it when I realize half way through the book that I hate the main character, and misogyny is a pretty good way to ensure that happens.
Yep. And if that was what the author was going for, then fait accompli!
Thanks!
You put up with this for 500 pages??
I know, right?! But now I just want to know who the killer is!
I’m reading this at lunch, but based on the number of comments I need to come back and read them too.
I’ve read several of DeMille’s books. The way he treats women is appalling. I vowed never to read Hemingway again for similar reasons.
But I find that DeMille is laughing at himself for being an ass about it all the while he is oggling. And that makes me laugh
Or maybe I find myself too old to be offended — because it is not something I really have to deal with any more.
I do get the impression that DeMille enjoys painting his character as such, which makes me wonder about the author himself…
I’m not so much offended as annoyed. And I get frustrated when he steps out of the story’s thriller mode to interrupt the reader with the main character’s libido. Either make it a thriller or make it a sex romp. I don’t really care for the mixture.
Thanks for your thoughts. Nice to hear from another person who’s read him.
I’ve never read Plum Island and I think I will definitely pass on it. The quotes from the book made me eyeroll and crinkle my nose. haha. I’m with you – there are many more books to choose to read if you don’t like a book (though if I had started it – yeah, I would probably finish it). I want to love or hate the characters – to identify with them in some way – to have an emotional response and that feeling of, oh I just can’t put this book down!
Enjoy your trip with your son!
Thank you! We’re looking forward to it. Hopefully I’ll finish this book before then.
lol – I think I’ll give the boob man and the 6-pack ladies a big miss. Wish-fulfillment characters are always boring.
You’re the first one who mentioned that, and I hadn’t thought about it, but you’re right. The character is not only sexist, but he’s boring, too. Some character growth or some self-realization would give the situation a little punch. Thanks.
I haven’t read any of his work so I can’t comment directly but to me a story has to have both a strong plot and characters who ring ‘true’.
Without wanting to sound too sexist myself, I imagine a certain segment of male readers probably would identify with that protagonist but I still think that’s a niche market. The majority of male writers create wonderful, 3D characters and they can’t all be targeting the female readership! I suspect a lot of male readers would be just as annoyed as you.
It does make you wonder though, doesn’t it? About the author himself I mean. He has either deliberately targeted this market segment or….
I AM starting to wonder about the author. Especially with the frequent ex-wife and PMS jokes. Maybe he’s getting back at an ex and using his character to do it…
Hmm… I think you could be right. Maybe misogynist would be a better label for him. Although it doesn’t sound as if he actually hates women.
Just his ex-wife.
lol – yes.
This is one of those elements in storytelling that I’m constantly on the watch for: character growth. I could forgive the sexist pig remarks if the protagonist ultimately realized he’s a jerk and changed his ways. This usually happens via an important relationship with a female (daughter, ex, new girl in the office) who won’t put up with his behavior.
But if he continues to be such a creep past the middle with no hope of changing, then I probably wouldn’t finish it and I wouldn’t ever read another book by that author. I’d review it honestly, too. I think the more readers who speak out, no matter how many copies of this book sold, then we’re helping other readers as well as writers who might be dealing with a similar protag.
Agreed. And sadly, there is no character growth here. 500 pages into the book, and I’ve given up any hope of that. I guess that’s just the way this detective is. For those who like him, they can read more novels with him as the series protagonist. For those of us this annoys, we can say adios. I will leave a fair review, including my thoughts on the main character.
Thanks, Kate!
I can believe those are all from the same book! Still, that balloon smuggling line made me laugh. It’s too bad when a good story gets spoiled with stuff like that. It reminds of The Night Land, which is an epic book, but has some pretty sexist parts in it.
Oh, and those snippets only came from about the first 150 pages of a 700 page book. There are plenty more where that came from. Sadly.
Thanks!
I haven’t read the book, nor do I read much fiction. Given the examples and the reactions of the readers, is it that every author shouldn’t be sexist or should a reader best use their judgment that accommodates their values?
I don’t think an author should be sexist if he/she wants readers. However, I think he/she has a right to create a sexist character. But if that’s the case, then hopefully the hero has other things going for him that are good. It’s a real bummer to not want to root for the hero.
But what if a reader wants sexism?
Then they are free to read ‘Plum Island.’
Yep … and the author can also write a book that only few will read.
I don’t think you’re overreacting. My favorite male authors still treat characters as people, and while I’m not against character description, when an author has a protagonist or story that outright disturbs or offends me without any indication that they are trying to highlight that said attitudes/behavior/circumstance are undesirable I will start passing on their work. I don’t mind reading about unpleasant things so long as the point of showcasing unpleasant things is as a warning or learning experience rather than condoning the unpleasantness. I don’t mind beautiful people, or beauty being appreciated, either, but I don’t want those people to be reduced to props or objects.
Conversely, I once read a book by someone with a female name (so I’m assuming they’re female, but I could be wrong), who insisted on pointing out on every page (not exaggerating) that their female protagonist was the most beautiful, breathtaking person in the world (if it wasn’t outright said, there was a description of the tightness of every man’s breeches). Did I mention that they were also the kindest person ever and they were destined to save the world and they had superior magical abilities and a legendary sword? Or how about the part where as she journeyed through the molten center of the earth she became physically flawless (even down to the point of a restored hymen, which much prose was spent on)? The only “problem” with the protagonist was supposedly her low self-esteem. Reading the trilogy (I guess I thought it would get better?) was excruciating, and I will certainly never choose to read another book by that author, despite the fact that I liked the use of mythology, some of her basic ideas, and thought that she otherwise wrote well. Some things, even though they might seem nitpicky to others, can ruin a story for some readers.
Oh yes, I can see where that would get old very quickly. Every character needs flaws. I think the trick is to balance the flaws with some decent traits so that we like the main character, or at least care about him or her.
A ‘restored hymen.’ Haha. That’s a good one.
Thanks!
I don’t think you’re being overly sensitive at all. I pay a lot of attention to an author’s treatment of their female characters. If it’s a commentary of some type and clearly not meant to be offensive, that’s one thing, but in this case it just sounds kind of…ugh.
It is kind of ‘ugh.’ Good way to put it. I guess the one nice thing I can say about it is the author did a good job of creating a vivid character. Too bad I can’t stand him though.
Thanks, Ashley!
1) You’re a great mom.
2) I’m not into objectifying women; even when they’re super-hot.
=)
Well, thank you for the first, and I agree with you on the second.
Thanks, Stacie!
Although the objectivity thing is more multi-faceted than I can relay here. Maybe a post one of these days. Have a great time with your son. =)
Thanks.
Carrie,
I haven’t read Plum Island (and probably won’t) but I agree with you. I really want to like the protagonist, but if he’s a sexist pig, I would probably put the book down sooner than later. I have been known to give up on a book when severely annoyed. For instance: I quit J.K. Rowling’s “Casual Vacancy” about a third of the way through. There really wasn’t even a protagonist to like – just vignettes of everybody in this nowhere town in England and their reactions to the death of a town council member who suffers from a cerebral aneurysm in the first chapter. I kept thinking – “no plot, no characters who I care about, and this is the woman who wrote Harry Potter??!!!” Anyway, thanks for another great post and for allowing me a short rant on your blog.
Cathy
Rant all you want! After all, you were kind enough to read mine.
I’ve heard that about JK Rowling’s new book. Tough to want to keep reading a book when there are no characters you want to invest in.
Thanks, Cathy!
Yep, nowhere to be found.
I agree. Authors definitely want to try to get a voice ‘right,’ but you don’t want to turn off your audience either. For the protagonist to think and say that stuff in the book, I’d be offended (but probably wouldn’t have been if it was the villain, to turn me against him). Enjoy your magic world this week. Can your son make ice and snow disappear? Ship him my way if he can. I had to go up the mountain today to enjoy 20 degree warmer temps than in the mucky valley. I’m sick of winter already.
Oh, how I wish he could make snow disappear. It was funny, because at about 11:30 I went downstairs to answer comments on my treadmill. At the time, my yard was green–in other words, no snow. I came up 2 hours later and found a blanket of white. Not cool, Mother Nature!
And yes, I think this author did such a good job with ‘voice’ that he made me completely dislike the main character. Probably not his intention, but I have to give him kudos for his showing, not telling and getting the chauvinistic tone down perfectly.
Fluffy white stuff is fun, it’s the brick hard white stuff that’s sat around for a month now that has me gritting my teeth (and dodging lethal iceballs from half-brained 12 year olds.)
Oh yeah, that brick hard stuff lasts a long time, too.
So, I guess if I told you that your Avatar photo reminds me of a loaf of freshly-baked bread (warm, scrumptious and tempting enough to make me sell my soul), you’d consider it chauvinistic? I read Plum Island, too, several years back and was struck by the term “Mr. Happy Meat” that DeMille’s protagonist used to describe his nether regions. But, what do you expect from a former law enforcement official-turned writer? Come on now, Carrie! They’re not educated scribes like us with really big thesauruses anyway. But, I see your point. That’s why I don’t read anything from John Grisham; his writing is incredibly stereotypical and sophomoric. I’ve read cell phone text messages with greater depth than his crap! What’s equally frightening is that people swoon over stuff like that. Alas, real writers like us who know how to put together stories and describe people and places will always struggle against the hobbits of the written world. It’s a never-ending battle for literary supremacy on Earth!
Haha. Well, I appreciate you including me in the ‘real writers’ category, but I make no claims to be in the leagues of the bigwigs. And I like DeMille’s writing; he’s a good story teller. He just needs to give me something to like about the main character. Or at least care about him.
Thanks for the comment and for making me smile.
I wonder if authors can still get away with that stuff….or I’m not reading it? I guess I’m surprised to hear it from that particular author. I thought of him as “above” it, even though I’ve never read him. Hmmm. Now I don’t want to. And your cucumber example – oh my gosh – that does put it in a completely different perspective for me which is now very disconcerting…:) And I like your strong opinions! Keep it coming.
Yes, I guess I was a bit mouthy on this one, but I figured Mr. DeMille could take it. Laugh all the way to the bank, he will.
Maybe his later books improved in this regard–I’m not sure. An earlier commenter told me she read this book as well and had the same reaction, so it’s nice to know I’m not alone.
Thanks, Amy!
It’s such a shame when the language of a book can be so distracting that it ruins a story. I’m sure the author was going for a “voice” but if it is turning off the reader that much, then it has backfired as far as I’m concerned.
Thanks for the warning. It probably would have bothered me too. I’ll spend my money elsewhere… like that doctor novel I’ve heard so much about
Haha. Sounds like a plan.
And yes, this character’s voice is a real turn-off. I can deal with a cad as long as he has some redeeming qualities, but I think the author forgot to add those. Then again, his sales certainly prove there are millions who don’t share my sentiment.
Yeah, I wish I could annoy that many people with my writing.
Oh, yes, wouldn’t that be nice?…
I laughed out loud about how you said you should keep your balloons covered for Magi-Fest. Good one, Carrie. I read Plum Island I don’t know how many years ago, and I actually remember it for precisely the reasons you mention. I didn’t especially enjoy Nelson DeMille’s writing even aside from the gratuitous mentions of boobs, butts, etc, but I do remember thinking, “WTF? Who is this guy, and did it occur to him that maybe a woman might be reading his book?” Maybe not. I bet he’s a real classy guy.
I’m so glad to hear from someone who’s read it and am pleased to learn I’m not the only one with that reaction. I mean, I’m pretty easy going, and I’m not easily offended, but after 500 pages of this now, I’m getting pretty annoyed. Give me some character growth or some other reason to like this dude.
Thanks, Ms. Weebles. And I’m glad you liked my balloon joke. It appears Mr. DeMille has proved useful for something…
Carrie, First of all, congratulations to your son! That sounds like quite an honor. I hope he has a blast.
Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly. Sometimes writers make characters somewhat unlikable on purpose… and have them evolve over the course of the book. This can totally work for me. But I do find that certain genres and certain authors only feed into stereotypes. If that’s what the author wants, then fine…. but I won’t be picking up any books by that person in the future. Same with any other device that I dislike that the author uses over and over… child abuse, gratuitous violence or whiny-ness. As readers, we have to let our choices speak for themselves.
Well said, Anne. In fact, I could have just used your comment for my blog post.
And I so agree. And thank you again for your Goodreads review. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that!
Sure, Carrie. I hope you and other good writers find a wide audience… and sometimes the best way is through word of mouth.
Word of mouth is the best marketing tool of all. Unless it’s bad word of mouth…
First of all, congratulations on you son’s full scholarship to Magi-Fest. Steve Martin’s biography a few years ago gave me a new appreciation for the art of magic. He must be very good. (Your son, not Steve Martin.)
This post made me think of “Aunt Linda” from Saturday Night Live.
I roll my eyes in unison. A writer has a MUCH harder job keeping a reader uh . . . reading if the hero’s a douche. (I give the author’s choice two “Whaat!’s and one “Egad!”)
Yes, my son is really good. He’s only 12, but he studies the DVDs by the experts and really gets the tricks down. He does mostly card tricks. And they are way beyond the “Oh, isn’t that nice?” tricks of little kids. They knock my socks off. There will be 800 magicians from around the world at the conference–or so he tells me–so needless to say, he’s excited.
I’ll have to watch the Aunt Linda video later. I’m having trouble with my Adobe flash plug-in.
But thank you!
You have a budding Houdini in the house! This is sweet. I hope you both enjoy it and that you come back with some really good blog material! Love it!
As far as sexist prose it depends on the context. I tolerate certain language coming from Charles Bukowski because it’s raw, and very organic and important to the character. The characters are so vulnerable and pathetically human and messed up that you can accept the fact that this trait is the truth and a valuable part of what he’s conveying generally. If that kind of sexist point of view seems more gratuitous, self-gratifying, or tacked on, it clunks and reeks of failed story telling to me. What the heck was all this I just said?! Ha! But really when my man Charlie B talks like this you accept that it’s because he’s coming from some genuinely perverse and delicious space that can’t be avoided.
“If that kind of sexist point of view seems more gratuitous, self-gratifying, or tacked on, it clunks and reeks of failed story telling to me.”—Well said. And I agree, sometimes it’s integral to the character, but if it’s the main character–as in this book–it’s nice if the character has some other traits that a reader can like or at least empathize with.
And you’re right about getting some good material from Magi-Fest. I’ll be exposed to 800 magicians from around the world. Oh, the blog fodder I’ll have…
Thanks, Sandee!
Carrie, I agree with the examples you gave in your blog. Those were inappropriate. However, I wonder in what time frame the action is occuring? For example, The Malteese Falcon type book where Humphrie Bogart tells his buddy that he doesn’t know her name, doesn’t know where she’s from, but I’d know those gams anywhere” would be appropriate. It would be appropriate for any time period before the 60′s because unfortunately, that was the culture of the time.
And let us not forget that men are objectified too. Not in the cucumber description….but when was the last time a man didn’t take off his shirt to reveal a 6 pack? Most men work without their shirts and they all have six packs, are tall, have dreamy blue eyes and basically look like Christopher Reeve. When was the last time you read the description of the hero as being 5-9, losing his hair and trying to cover it up with a bad comb over, 210 pounds which is about 50lbs more than the bmi charts say he should be. I recently read a book by a female author who described the person as a “younger Brad Pitt”. The women in the story refered to him as DSD…Dreamy Sexy Dad.
It’s set in 1997, so the author should know better. But I agree–men are objectified, too. I frequently remind my sons that men don’t have to have six-pack abs. And I don’t mind the detective objectifying the women so much as long as the author gave me other reasons to like the guy, but sadly, he doesn’t. The ‘hero’ just comes across as a jerk. But I’m sure to other readers, he comes off as funny and cool, so that’s why I say to each his/her own. I don’t have to read it, but obviously there are millions of people out there who like it.
Thanks, Kevin! How you found time to comment is beyond me.
I understand that the last thing a woman with a Ph.D. wants is to be remembered for her body, but who we are, what we have accomplished, and what we look like are inextricable. And if a woman—no matter what her accomplishments—happens to be pretty, why not note it?
As for gray-shaded protagonists, House MD got away with saying sexist stuff and objectifying women all the time.
A person is a sum of their looks, their personality, their intelligence, and their accomplishments. Of these, looks are the easiest to notice and usually the most distracting. I think that a guy who doesn’t care about a woman’s brightness is losing out on good friendships, good relationships, and, at the very least, a good conversation. But you can’t fault a guy for noticing how pretty a woman is—no matter how gifted, brilliant, or wonderful she is.
Having said all this, what you’re doing here is the perfect response to reading something objectionable. Instead of asking for it to be banned, you’re commenting on it. That, I respect.
I agree completely, and I have no problem with characters commenting on female–or male–looks. But when it’s done at the expense of the story (and makes you dislike the ‘hero’) is where I take issue. I think maybe it’s the weird juxtaposition of talking about a potential biological outbreak in one sentence and his desire to bed the scientist in the next. Kind of jarring and disjointed, which is probably more a sign of the writing than anything. But yes, I agree, if we don’t like something, we don’t have to read it. Others may love it, and that’s what makes the world go round in my opinion.
Thanks for your insights. Appreciate it!
Always a pleasure to read your blog.
To your point, not to say that men are animals, but a guy’s mind can totally jump from wanting to rid the world of a killer virus to wanting to bed a coworker—if only for a split second.
Such a jarring jump can be off-putting to read though, even as a guy. In this instance, I’m annoyed too.
I think it gets back to the tone of the novel. Does he want it to be a thriller or does he want it to be a fun romp (he throws in lots of jokes)? To me, the two don’t mix well, but given he’s a best-selling author, obviously they do to millions of other readers!
Don’t cover up your balloons Carrie…it’s one of the many things I like about you
. You must be very proud of your son and I hope you both have a great mother/son day. 
xo
I am proud of him. He went out on his own and got that scholarship. Wrote an essay and everything. I didn’t even know about it until after he got it. He’s pretty self-sufficient.
As for my balloons, they’d have to look hard to find them anyway…
Ha! I just spit my drink, Wendy!
Nope. Well, maybe the screen a little.
Heya, nice, hope your kid enjoyed it! As for the piece, it’s hard for me to say, being male and all. Although generally I wouldn’t get offended by characters’ opinions, as long as they don’t reflect those of the author. That’s why fiction is so great – characters can be whoever they are. In fact, having characters like that helps draw attention to some actual “characters” in the real world. However, if you find the author’s characters are ALL like that, maybe it’s time to start wondering…
Also – smuggling a cucumber in his pants. Neat! “Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?” “Mam, that’s a cucumber, thank you very much!” *walks proudly away to dramatic music.*
Leave it to you to like the cucumber…
As for the character–there is so much of this throughout the book, that I’m now wondering if it IS a reflection of the author. I just don’t like this protagonist. At all. Which makes it hard to enjoy the book.
And Magi-Fest is this weekend. My son if very excited to say the least.
Thanks, Daniel! I appreciate you stopping by while you’re on vacation.
Fair enough, if it’s about character/story not being enjoyable due to character flaws, then it’s a whole different bag of mangoes. Cucumbers? I dunno.
Ah, so the magic is still coming up! I’m sure you’ll have a great time, enjoy it. I’m back in DK on Sunday so next week I should start blogging again! Missed it
And we’ve missed you!
Interesting. And I recently read someone else’s take on this particular author’s writing re: his very ‘distinct’ voice. I’m sure I’d try to work my way through at least one complete work. Sounds though, like this guy wrote for the guys. As per what makes a bestseller, I’m sure I don’t always agree that ‘bestseller’ is interchangeable with ‘good read’ or even ‘well-written book,’ but that’s just MHO. And, in the words of the iconic Forrest Gump, “That’s all I have to say about that.”
It’s too bad I’m finding the protagonist so disagreeable, because I really like the author’s writing style and his pacing (although the book could be shorter than 700 pages, but I guess it was his first and he was a little wordy). But I just can’t get past this guy’s annoying actions, so I guess that’s it for me and DeMille’s John Corey books. I’m sure the author is weeping…
Yep, as he deposits another royalty check at the bank, lol.
Have fun at your Magi-conference! My older son would love that. He was really into magic a while back.
Thanks! It will be nice to get away for a few days.
Well, it doesn’t make me want to read this book, that’s for sure. I think what you say how showing rather than telling is key. If it’s central to the character and you show it as part of how this person operates, thinks about women, that can be a big piece of the story. But to make cracks like that about women throughout the book would be insulting and tiring.
Oh, it is. And sadly, it hasn’t improved at page 500. No character growth. No redeeming qualities to this protagonist I can find. Sigh…
Thanks, Ms. Bumble!
You’re good to stick out until page 500! I usually don’t make it that far if I don’t like the book. You are giving it a good shot!
I know, and now I’m so far into the dang thing, I can’t stop!
It’s got to be over soon, I’d imagine!
About a 170 pages left. I can make it. I didn’t come this far not to find out who dunnit, dang it!
Of course, you could skip to the end!!
Ok, bad idea. You’ve invested so much already. I hope it’s a surprise at least.
You and me both.
Oh yes! You nailed it. Bravo Carrie! IGJ
Thanks. I suspect this author would get your feathers ruffled, too. Then again, probably no more than some of those blokes you have to work with.
Hi, Carrie! Did you win? I hope so…..I’m almost finished with your book….very good. I started a book club 12 years ago, and have been reading our next book, plus another, so I’m actually reading three at this time. love, Aunt Flo
________________________________
I got second place–but hey, I’m cool with that. It was just a way to get a little more exposure. Thanks again for your vote! Glad you’re enjoying the book.
I haven’t read any DeMille and after reading the quotes I kinda want to puke in my mouth. I love a good story, but I need to ‘care about’ what happens to the characters – regardless of their good/evil intentions and actions. If I can’t care about the characters, the best story in the world wouldn’t keep me reading. I’m a very unforgiving reader and won’t persist to the end of the story if things irk me (my time is too precious to read something I don’t enjoy). I think I would have stopped reading at ‘balloons’! I know there are people like this in the world (believe me, I’ve known a few and some are even family!) but they need another redeeming quality in a book to balance their act, otherwise they’re just cookie-cutter twerps that are ‘convenient’ for the author and irritating for the reader.
Magi-Fest sounds like an absolute blast – what a cool mom you are!
In one comment, you just conveyed exactly my feelings on the subject–better than I conveyed in a whole post on the topic! That’s just it–even if I don’t particularly like a character, I want to care about him/her. This guy is just a turd, plain and simple. Not sure what the author was thinking. Some of his jokes about ex-wives and PMS and other stuff makes me wonder if his main character is actually an extension of himself. I sure hope not!
As for being a cool mom–not sure if my kids would agree.
But my son applied for the scholarship on his own and got it. Luckily, it’s within driving distance. The scholarship includes all my fees for the workshops as well, but I suspect I’ll be sitting in back with my laptop. 
I refused to read 50 grades of shite because I was worried it would be full of such purple prose. Believe it or not, I used to review books for a living when I had my daughter and was home not working. An American-based site would send me a big box of galleys every few months and I would churn out some reviews. There was a high percentage of ‘erotic’ genre books, with the sort of “his manroot shuddered” style sex that just made me laugh. And give them a terrible review; one the other hand one of the books I reviewed was a biography of Bonnie & Clyde that was just so well written. After I reviewed it the author wrote to me to thank me which was so nice
Sorry got a little off track there! Wish I could review books for a living, even bad ones. It’s fun!
Getting paid to be a book reviewer would be great. Or a movie critic. I’d like that, too. But then again, I suppose when it’s a job, it loses its fun, and I’d probably just want to eat my popcorn and enjoy the film and not worry about taking notes and such.
I never read the 50 Shades books, either and I don’t intend to. But as I’ve said all along, kudos to the author for striking it so big. I’m sure she’s laughing all the way to the bank.
Yup!
Sometimes I just go with it. But usually if you are stumbling over the words and laughing at how ridiculous they sound (and quoting them later and still laughing)….? I think that is maybe a book that doesn’t get read cover to cover. And if I do, there are definitely no follow-up reads by the same author.
I like a story and I want to be able to enjoy it; I don’t need to wrestle with the words to get at it.
“I like a story and I want to be able to enjoy it; I don’t need to wrestle with the words to get at it.”—I like that. Well said. I’m too far into it to quit now–I want to know who the killer is–but definitely no more books by this guy for me.
Thanks!
yeah, sometimes it’s like a bad movie where you wish you could just hit the highlights and fast-forward to avoid the filler. I often flip to the back of the book, but it’s not summarized there either.
Where will MagiFest be? I love going places, even lame ones (assuming you’re not traveling out of state).
I’ve never read anything by Nelson DeMille, and this selection doesn’t make me any more likely to. Of the four passages, only one of them is decent–Nordic Track–it’s snappy and conveys nicely the author’s meaning. “Balloons” starts off strong but is ruined by the clumsiness of the last part. The other two are just ham-handed.
Are you sure the rest of the book is good? These aren’t just crude, they’re also a little amateurish, I think.
And those passages were only in the first 150 pages or so (out of almost 700)… I should have stopped reading, because I’m now past page 500, and I still have nothing to like about this guy. I can like a sexist character if he’s got other decent traits, but this poor guy really needs some assets. But now I just want to know who dunnit.
Luckily, the magician behind Magi-Fest this year is from Columbus, so they’re having it there. Easy drive. My son’s pretty keyed. His scholarship includes admission for me to all of the events, but I suspect I’ll be sitting it the back working on my laptop. Then again, some of it will probably be pretty cool. And at the very least, I’m sure I’ll dig up some good blog fodder…
Great blog fodder indeed! And it’s truly one of those ‘magical’ things, because two different people (say, for example, you and I) could come away with two wildly differing impressions (and I mean in the way these impressions are later expressed) of the same event. Yours would be the sweet and touchingly funny version.
Columbus always makes me chuckle. I’ve never been there, but I’m always astounded when I’m reminded that it’s the largest city and capital of Ohio.If you ask a non-O-Ho (as Ohioans are known beyond the borders of the Buckeye State) to name some towns in Ohio, they can name a few: Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo. Press ‘em, and they can maybe come up with Dayton or even Youngstown. But Columbus? They’ll name Indianapolis before they name Columbus.
Have fun at Magi Fest! And maybe talk to them about that name.
Haha. Yeah, I’ll do that.
And Columbus is great. It’s got the only zoo I care to go to (after two kids, I’m zoo-ed out). But Jack Hanna’s Columbus zoo has so many great animals. And tons of gorillas–my favorite. But they definitely like to eat each other’s poo.
I am disarmed by your serious reply to my snarky comment. The Columbus Zoo does sound cool. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE a good zoo (I’ve been to zoos all around the country, and once in the rust belt–Philly), and we have a membership to our local rinky-dink zoo, but so far my kids really aren’t that into it, which is sort of disappointing.
When all else fails, disarm them with sincerity…
I will be honest and admit to not minding this too much. I perceive it as a character flaw, and if the story is good, I just go with it. However, I’m surprised at my reaction to graphic sex scenes in books. What used to be “reading porn” when I was younger is now acceptable mainstream romance. I don’t know If I will ever get used to it, and I’m not trying to. Before anyone would get their knickers in a knot over this, I don’t see R-rated movies with sex scenes either. It’s just me.
As for your son, I’m truly impressed. Our son loved magic and tried his hand at typical kid stuff magic. He wrote a letter to David Copperfield (he was probably in third grade at the time), and received an autographed picture in the mail. It was pretty cool. Your son may headline in Vegas one day!
My son would love to headline in Vegas! But luckily, he’s going to get a double major–in performance arts and engineering. Phew! (Of course, he’s 12, that could all change tomorrow…)
I wouldn’t mind a character who was sexist if he had other redeeming qualities. But this guy really doesn’t. He’s too much of an ass for me to want to read any more of him. Which is too bad, because the author tells a good story.
Thanks for your thoughts, Maddie!
Pleased to see you’ll be avoiding the ‘physical description of my hero’ that you describe ~ best to avoid books byDeMille … d’you think that’s his real name?
I don’t know. If I wrote about a character that unlikable to 50% of the population, I would certainly use a pen name.
And yes, no cucumber comparisons in my books…
A full scholarship to MagiFest, how cool is that? I bet your son’s had a blast! I can only imagine how excited my kids would be to go to a LegoFest.
As for those quotes, I can only say one thing: barf! Is the audience a bunch of teenage boys? How immature is that? Or maybe just lazy writing. By the way, I finished Killing Floor, the first Jack Reacher book and I REALLY liked it. I bet you would too. There are comments describing a woman, but they’re a lot more appropriate and I think more what a real guy would think. Unless he’s a real sleeze…
Good to hear about “The Killing Floor.” I’d like to read it before I see the movie starring that character. As for the sexism, I have no problem with men ogling women, but if you’re going to have a character like that, you better give me something else about the character to like. With this guy, there’s nothing. He’s an ass.
Magi-Fest is at the end of this week and weekend. My son is so excited. And I’m thrilled about the scholarship–didn’t have to pay for any of the conference fees. Yay!
Wow, that magic conference sounds awesome? How did your son get it? Did he have to pull a rabbit out of a hat?
I really think you’ll like the Jack Reacher’s books and I recommend starting with the first one, since it gives a lot of background info on the character. My friend saw the movie so I asked to ask her how they managed to have Tom Cruise play a 6’4″ big guy character, which is a very important part in the story (his height is to his advantage). She said they casted a lot of shorter people for all the scenes and he probably walked around in platform shoes, but he pulled it off.
Read Killing Floor and tell me what you think. I will take you less than a week to read. You won’t be able to put it down.
I’m assuming “Killing Floor” is the first one? I think Tom Cruise is used to filming with shorter people. In the last Mission Impossible film, his costars were Jeremy Renner and Simon Pegg, both on the short side. And I’ve heard he’s had to stand on boxes before.
My son follows several different magic sites, so he heard about Magi-Fest through one of those and applied for the scholarship. He’s a very self-sufficient young man!
Yes, Killing Floor is the first one. Good for your son, going for what he loves! Good to know he didn’t have to pull dirty tricks to get in. Sorry, I had to.
Haha. No, no dirty tricks. And yes, he’s doing what he loves, but luckily he says he’s going to double major in college: performance arts and engineering, in case the magician stuff doesn’t work out. Of course, he’s 12…
Well, it sounds like your son is well grounded and very driven. I bet he’ll get to do what he sets out to do. Good for him!
By the way, I hope your husband is not related to Gretchen Rubin, because I wrote a pretty bad review of her book on my blog today.
Haha. No relation to any Gretchens. And now I can’t wait to get to your post. I’m slowly working my way through the blogs I follow. Mondays are busy blog days, aren’t they?
Stand on boxes? Oh, that is right out of Monty Python’s classic skit, “Scott of the Antarctic!”
Well, I suppose I need to be careful what I read, but that’s what I’ve heard anyway. And judging by how he was relatively equal height to Nicole Kidman in that movie they did years ago, I suspect this was probably the case.
Too funny.
In the MP skit, the actress in the film, Vanilla “Hoar,” can only act if she has boxes tied to her feet as she stands in a trench. It’s hysterical if you’ve never seen it!
I haven’t seen it. I tried to watch a You Tube clip about it, but I’m having trouble with my Adobe Flash plug-in. Something I need to work on tomorrow. Sigh…
I have no problem with these type of views if they fit in with the character. Sometimes a character needs to be annoying or have some large faults. But of course I have not read the book and know whether it fits or not. It is an interesting idea though. I don’t know if you watched the Sopranos, and this isn’t much of a spoiler if you didn’t, but a few episodes in, Tony (the main character) kills someone, and it is not in self defence. This was a brave thing for a central character in a tv show at the time (pre Dexter which I know you like), and it wasn’t just killing a bad guy. It showed that despite all the things we might like of sympathise with this character, that he was still a monster. Yet we would mostly still root for him!
Have fun at the magic shows. Well more likely your son will have fun an therefore you as he is. Have you watched the first two Justified episodes?
Hi, Elliot! Nice to hear from you. Hope all is well on your hiatus.
I agree–it’s okay to give a character faults, sometimes huge ones, as long as you give the reader something to like about them. I can like a sexist guy if he’s got other decent, or at least interesting, qualities. But sadly, this guy doesn’t. Too bad, too, because I like the book’s premise.
I have watched ‘Justified.’ I’m loving the new season. But sadly, the hour always goes by too quickly, and we have to wait a whole other week to watch it again…
Ya, Justified good so far. It’s going through it’s slightly smaller stories, putting in place the pieces for the larger season arc, but that is fun. The “if you meet an @sshole” comment from Raylan in the first episode, and that family from last week, were just two highlights for me.
Oh and the “Racooning” as well.
Oh, yes, we loved the @sshole comment. So funny, and oddly so true
I don’t think it would bother me if it’s part of making this guy’s character. I’ve not read this book but sometimes the best characters are the ones we love to hate and hate to love, you know? I guess if it bothered me that much, I’d just stop reading.
Believe me, I wish there were something about this guy I hated to love–I think that is exactly what the author intended–but alas, I can’t stand the guy. It will be the last I read about this detective.
Thanks, Brigitte!
I’ve read that book and several others by Mr. DeMille. I honestly don’t recall those passages, though it was many years ago. Part of the reason they didn’t strike a chord may be due to my own personal chauvinism (doubtful – you know I’m a sensitive man of the world), or perhaps my “reading method” caused it.
To explain, since I’m not a particularly fast reader, I’ve developed a sort of reading shorthand. When I see some long-winded description of a woman which inloves “symphonies of curves” and/or “melodies of flesh”, I just summarize that the woman is attractive and move onto the next paragraph.
Quotes regarding a “Nordic Track butt” are taken at face value. That is to say – this is a blatant bit of product placement poorly disguised as a description of a character. I can only assume Mr. DeMille was rewarded handsomely by the good folks at Nordic Track.
Lastly I’m afraid you missed the point on following the woman up the stairs. As a detective, he wanted to discretely check her for weapons.
You chicks are so sensitive!
Enough of my wit.
I’ve put many books down after a few pages or half way through. Part of the reason I started writing my blog was to hone my skills so that I might one day write an actual novel. My motivation to do so is twofold. One: to express myself. Two: because I keep reading absolute drivel written by best selling authors and I’m convinced I can do better. Nelson DeMille isn’t even one of those awful writers, but those excerpts were not the strongest writing.
Maybe I’d get further along in my novel if I stopped leaving 3 page comments.
Haha–your last sentence made me laugh. Well, actually, as always, your whole comment made me smile. In a good way.
I think the reason I’ve noticed it so much in this book is because it’s endless. Those quotes I pulled were only from the beginning of a nearly 700 page book. It’s weird to be reading about a potential biological outbreak in one sentence, and the scientist’s boobies in the other. But maybe it’s just as you say–it’s more a reflection of weak writing. Perhaps his later books have improved.
And it’s one thing to make a sexist joke–I can laugh right along with the others; I’m not easily offended. They can be funny. But to do it right, you need to make your character lovable in other ways–like maybe he’s a softie deep down inside. Kind of like you.
No…not like me…I’m not likeable.
I think that character is the protagonist in many of DeMilles books. John Corey? Anyway, as you know, he’s a gritty, real world NY cop who gets thrust into trying to solve crimes and uncover conspiracies with a never ending parade of bad guys as well as dealing with by-the-book, white collar federal agents. Dealing with the feds is often a bigger challenge than finding the bad guys. Eventually he marries a beautiful FBI agent if memory serves, and she suffers along with most women at his coarse ways, but she also learns that many of the refined, well mannered men she worked with at the federal level had far worse traits than her hubby.
The take home message for male readers is that it’s ok to fart and compare women’s anatomy to balloons, but undermining the pursuit of the truth just to protect certain members of the house of representatives is just plain wrong.
I KNEW that was the take-home message. You sure know how to read between the lines.
It’s a gift I have…
I seriously thought you must have made those horrendous lines up, until you actually gave credit to the author. But on to more important issues – a magician’s conference? You must now be the coolest mom on the planet! Good for you! Have fun!
Well, he’s certainly one of the coolest sons, anyway. He took it upon himself to apply for a scholarship, and he got one. They cover the conference fees. How could I say no? Plus it’s in driving distance, since they’re having it in a city near us this year. Big plus. I’m sure I can get some interesting blog fodder from it, too…
And how I wish I were making those lines up. And those were only from the first 150 pages or so out of a 700 page book! Icky.
Impressive of your son! Oh, can’t wait for the upcoming posts about your adventure
Yes, I’m sure there will be plenty of fodder to be found in a group of 800 magicians…
You’re right, it does make you throw up a little in your mouth. Like you, I am not opposed to sexy language, but there is nothing sexy about this author’s descriptions that are more akin to the slime ball remarks of over sexed frat rats, locker room smack talkers or prison yard pinheads. Unfortunately, from the back room to the board room, there are knuckle draggers from all walks of life, who at one time or another subscribe to this kind of monkey-boy, goober-head slang. Some out grow it, some never do.
You’ve touched on it perfectly, and that’s just what this character is. And how am I supposed to like that? It’s like I told an earlier commenter, part of it may be the weird juxtaposition of discussing a potential biological warfare release in one sentence and fantasizing about the female scientist’s body in the next. It just throws things off. And it makes me feel icky.
Perhaps the writer adheres to the somewhat dubious statistic that men think about sex every nine seconds? BTW, have you read 1Q84 by
Haruki Murakami? Could be a bit shorter, but a fascinating SciFi read.
I haven’t read that one. Does he talk about ‘balloons’?
And I’m fine with him having his character think about sex a lot–it’s just the WAY that he does it. Give me something to like about the character, and he can think about whatever he wants.
I read The Goldcoast and it was pretty much the same way. Seems Mr. DeMille might not have quite caught up with the times. Once you notice something that drives you crazy, it’s hard not to dwell on that instead of what might be right with it.
That’s good to know about “The Goldcoast.” Then I won’t feel bad about avoiding his books in the future. And I think you touched right on it–his character is such a sexist putz, it’s all I can focus on now. Even with the good story, I’m eagerly awaiting its end. Of course, now that I’m in the final quarter, I’ll keep reading. And who knows, maybe he’ll give his character some growth? One can always hope…
Thanks, Lynn!
I don’t think you are being too sensitive. I just never choose to read those things that offend me. You could do a review of said book and let out your frustrations, but I suppose you have already done that here. LOL Perhaps the writing says a lot about how the author views men and women? So… find some better food for your intellectual hunger I say.
I agree with you. Why read something that offends or annoys us? And really, I’m usually pretty tame about things like this, but this book has goten under my skin. I think part of the problem is the weird juxtaposition of discussing a potential biological warfare release in one sentence and fantasizing about the female scientist’s body in the next. And I suppose that’s just an error of writing, and perhaps he’s improved on that over the years.
I will leave an Amazon and Goodreads review, and I won’t base it all on this. It still has many positives. But sadly, I won’t be reading any more by him.
Thanks so much for the comment! Always appreciated.
I haven’t read any of his books, so I can’t specifically comment on your quotes reading them out of context, but I consider you to be a very good judge of…well, everything really! So if you say it is how it is, then I believe you. Sometimes these things bother me and sometimes not, I guess it depends on the situation and what time of the month it is!
Normally these things don’t bother me much either, because usually if a man acts like a cad, the author gives him other redeeming qualities, or we learn he’s just using such talk as a defense mechanism or he’s really a sweetie underneath. This protagonist is none of the above. It was written in 1997, so it’s possible the author has toned it down since then (I believe he’s written several books with this main character). It would be interesting to find out, but I don’t think my eyes can take it. Roll, roll, roll.
Thanks for saying I’m a good judge of things. Glad to see I have you fooled…
RIght there with you on this one…sadly too many men out there are still in this mind set. I can avoid the writing, but the people….(gnashing teeth)
Guess it’s a market and some appreciate this formula…but something is repeated over and over it starts to seem normal ( which is a concern)
But on to the important stuff! Magic! Cool! So wonderful – had a young magician here for a bit…used to hang out at magic shops where they were amused and encouraging. HAve a great time ( and such characters and stories there!)
“but something is repeated over and over it starts to seem normal ( which is a concern)”—I loved that! Deep and insightful and so true.
My son is so excited for Magi-Fest. He has to miss some school, but I figured it was worth it, given it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity for him–to study with the bigwigs. And I’m so proud of him for applying for the scholarship.
I have never read him. I wonder if he still writes as sexist given this book was published in 97?
It is all about freedom of choice for me. I would not read Fifty Shades but plenty and I mean plenty of ladies did.
Kudos on your fine boy! That is awesome– and yes watch those balloons baby.
I agree–they can write the way they want, but I won’t be one of their fans. I never read the 50 Shades stuff, and given how much this book bothered me, I suspect I should keep it that way.
And yeah, my boy is pretty cool. The scholarship covers the conference fees. Woo hoo!
Thanks for the comment!
Hmmm. Little, really, that can be said. Except perhaps to observe that the author appears to be one of a select few who observe the human condition with the aid of bedroom curtains and a telescope. Usually those who value the female sex only for their potential pole-dancing abilities are in possession of less than diet proportions of meat and two veg, and are therefore to be pitied.
So that’s it! It’s his diet. You are so right. I am going to offer that man some proper nutrition, and then maybe he can get past wondering what the scientist responsible for keeping biological warfare in check looks like when she lets down her hair and allows it to flip back and forth on his bare skin. And if you’d like more of that, by all means, read this book. It. Never. Ends.
Thanks, as always, for making me laugh! And for writing strong female characters. By the way, I want to get to another one of your books soon. I’ve got a couple of them on my Kindle. I need to read some good description for a change.
I’d put the book down…nomatter how good the story.
Formulaic, meant to attract the sort of man who reads thrillers….and no need for the publisher to worry about audience as a best selling author sells the next book on reputation.
There was a debate in the French senate last week about proposedlegislation to have gender equality in choosing candidates for office.
A woman senator overheard one of her male colleagues asking
‘Who is this bit of fluff?’ (rough translation of ‘nana’.)
She awarded him that week’s prize for redneck misogyny (rough translation of ‘beauf’)
I believe it. My mother is a state representative, and she has her share of political misogyny to deal with. I don’t envy her.
I kind of want to stop reading the book at this point, because it’s gotten so old. Every woman is described as how much she makes his ‘willy’ talk, even the scientists. Ick. But it’s a 700 page thriller, and I’ve got 200 pages left. I figure, “Eh, may as well plod on.” At least I got a blog post out of it.
Thanks, Helen!
But, but, but this is what men wish all women were like … “but the body beneath the tailored clothes was a symphony of curves, a melody of flesh looking to break free.” It’s that breaking free thing. And, well, the symphony of curves doesn’t hurt either. That said, I have to laugh at this … “In fact, she looked like she was smuggling balloons.” Not exactly a flattering image, to be honest since the lead in is about her entire body.
I read a book or two by that author probably 20-25 years ago and never felt the need to pick another one up. I’m not sure if you’re being too hard on him or not — it’s what he writes. Trite, cliched crap. And he makes a great living at it. But, you make a good point — the majority of readers are women. Do they really want to read this crap? Maybe, they do. Remember when Fifty Shades of Gray went big, all the theorizing about how all these middle class women were secretly wanting to be treated the way the woman is in those stories. Maybe there are a lot of women out there who still want chauvinistic men, at least in their stories.
I think I’m running all descriptions of women and sex in future stories by you.
Haha. I’m usually pretty good-natured about this type of thing, but this one is pushing my buttons. I guess the author did a good job then.
I think you did it perfectly in ‘One Night in Bridgeport.’ He wanted his fling, no doubt about that, but he didn’t disrespect the woman in getting it. We all objectify and desire–that’s human nature. But when it’s done ad nauseum and distracts from the story, then it’s just gross. I’d say this male author could learn a thing or two from you!
Woohoo … taking best-selling author Nelson DeMille to school. Yes I am!!!
Yes, you are!
Hard to say without reading more of the book. To be perfectly honest, that last line made me laugh. I suspect most guys think that way occasionally; they’re just too smart to say it out loud. I’d probably give it a chance. After all, my female protagonist sometimes objectifies her male colleagues… but it’s different when a woman does it, right? (Not.)
That said, if I kept reading and discovered that the hero truly didn’t think women were worth anything more than the sum of their body parts, I’d dump the book. I don’t want to spend time inside the head of a guy who does nothing but ogle butts and boobs.
Believe me, he’s a real sexist. I know that’s part of the author’s intention–to paint him as such–and for that he gets a grade A. But I’m tired of him wanting to bed every female he meets. It detracts from the more serious tone of a double homicide he’s trying to set. Maybe that’s the problem–I don’t like the disruption from the main story.
And I agree–a protagonist can be a bit of a cad and still be lovable, but it has to be done right. The protagonist needs to at least display some respect for women. This character is just kind of slimy.
I will finish the book, but I won’t read any more by him. I;m sure he’s heartbroken…
If he’s like that throughout the whole book, I’m impressed at your tolerance. I’d be long gone. A well-written jerk is still a jerk, and I won’t waste my valuable reading time. Read ‘em and weep, Mr. DeMille.
I kept reading to see if he’d change. My bad…
Yeah, I hate it when I get a book that’s just good enough to keep me reading, and I slog through the whole book hoping it’ll get better… grrr.
If I’m honest, I’d probably keep reading – but that doesn’t mean I like it. Fantasy, old-y world-y fantasy in particular, is probably my favourite genre, but is one of the worst culprits for relying on physical descriptions of women to make up for a lack of character development – more “heaving bosoms” and “slender waists” than you can shake a stick at!
I think after a few chapters of it I tend to try and tune it out and enjoy the rest of the story. I’d always much prefer to read a book where it isn’t there at all though. That said, have fun at Magi-fest! I didn’t know such a thing existed but it sounds amazing!
I didn’t know Magi-Fest existed either, until my son told me he applied for a scholarship to it and got it! He’s pretty amazing for a 12-year-old.
And I hear you on the ‘heaving bosoms’ and ‘slender waists.’ I can usually look past it, but I’m having so much trouble liking this protagonist that it’s detracting from an otherwise good story. This is one detective I guess I won’t be checking back in with.
Thanks, Emily!
I’d keep reading. I’d be annoyed. I probably wouldn’t read another. It is all about your limitations.
That’s just what I’m doing. I’ll finish it (but it’s almost 700 pages long!), but I’m getting more annoyed as time goes on. No character growth whatsoever in the ‘hero.’ I’ll pass on his other books.
Thanks, La La!
Actually, having read your book, I would love to see how you would work a cucumber smuggling situation into it…
Well, you know, that Casper was one good looking guy. It only stands to reason that he’d have…
You had me at “exactamundo,” and “Harumphing.”
As a chick who worked secretarial from the early 80s through the late 80s, I’ve heard enough sexist comments to keep me gagging for the rest of my life. As a country girl and farm wife, I’m still hearing garbage like this. I’m immune to it.
Now, as a writer…if it nails down a character’s personality? Yeah. I’d do it.
Would I do it with my main hero? Well. I’m kind of into flawed heroes, but I’d save that dialogue for characters I want women to dislike. It’s just common sense. I don’t believe today’s woman wants to be reminded of yesterdays tolerances…or today’s tolerances in BFE…which is apparently where I live!
I agree–if an author has a character who they want to display as sexist, then by all means do so. But I think it’s a risk to do so with one’s protagonist, not if the author wants female readers, anyway.
I bet you did hear your share of crap in your secretarial days. You’re probably still dry heaving from the experience. But I must ask, what is BFE?
Bum F Egypt
Okay. I admit it. I’m missing something here. I know that’s hard to believe…
Haha. Well. It’s kind of a a slang term for when you live in the sticks. The F is THE bad word. So, it’s saying, essentially, “where I live is so distant and insignificant, it’s like Bum EF Egypt.” Just a little weird saying we have in these parts. Guess someone made it up and it stuck. Must just be this area. Sorry, didn’t mean to throw you! Ignore me. I’m a yokel.
Oh, but you’ve taught me something, and I love to learn new things, local quips and more! Now if I ever come across it, I’ll have you to thank.
I’m happy to pull you into the dark and dirty side of country living.
Oh, I just researched a little. It apparently originated in the military back in the early 70s.
And here you are teaching me even more. I realize that I’m the clueless one here. I bet everyone else knew what it meant!
First, you are rich in emullience. That was my first thought. And I agree that that prose does not convey the essence of a woman’s body, like say, Song of Solomon, where he compares her breasts to twin deer. I would never describe Fonzie’s body so coarsely! Plus, it was mostly his forceful way of hitting a jukebox that gave me tingles.
I admit I had to look up ‘emullience.’ Guess I better stick to books about ‘balloons.’
Thanks so much for stopping by! I just peeked over at your blog, and I see we’ve both mentioned nostalgic shows today. Who could not love The Fonz and Julie McCoy?
Sorry; I was just remembering the Keri is so very “rich in emullience” commercial. I’ll leave it alone next time.
Haha! Yes! I was referring to those commercials. Which means I’ve dated myself. Glad I’m not alone…
I don’t mind dropping a book if I can’t take 1) the characters, 2) the plot, or 3) the writing. There are so many good books and so little time. I can’t waste my time finishing one I don’t like for whatever reasons.
Yes, characterizations like this turn me off, too, especially if we’re supposed to like the character they’re coming from. I probably live in an insulated corner of the world, but I know a lot of men who look at women as more than the sum of our exterior features. And I promise you won’t see characterizations like this in my books!
I was honestly surprised to find this in such a best-selling book. Usually these authors realize that women are a huge source of their readership. It was written in 1997, so maybe that explains some of it, but I’m being generous with that excuse. It’s not like it was THAT long ago. I get that some characters are sexist, and that’s fine. But it’s usually not the main character!
Thanks, JM!
I agree with you Carrie and do not think you are being overly sensitive. They have the right to write what they want and you have the equal right not to buy. Sorry,but “a melody of flesh looking to break free. In fact, she looked like she was smuggling balloons.” In my ( humble ) opinion is not even very good writing.
Haha–I agree. At least if you’re going to be a chauvinist, do it eloquently.
Yes,don’t insult our intelligence while you are insulting our sex!
Exactamundo!
Well said. Couldn’t agree more!
Yeah, I’m getting really tired of retrieving my eye balls off the floor. I’ve got a couple hundred pages left (long book), and there has been no character growth whatsoever. Sigh.